2003 Chevy, GMC 4 wheel drive problem
Question:
WOW…….2003 sierra HD w/ the allison tranny and duramax engine… mine started after bitter cold, and i was led to believe it was new part used in 2003 that turned out to be cold sensitive… mine has lights going every which way when it goes awry, BUT it has always remained in 2wd…even when it appeared 4WD LO it was really in 2WD I have 7200 miles on it already and admit, in a few days if a fix is not acail, i will do as u did and contact the BBB..i do have memo from GMC, etc etc… u might be my new hero…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day > (2/27/03) of > > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on > the > > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer > and > > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out > what > > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > > again. > > 3-4-03 UPDATE > > Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a > > document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs > > C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) > > #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) > > I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the > gist of > > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the > bottom > > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD > fuse so > > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in > 4WD > > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition > I > > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > > I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this > > truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the > replies > > to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed > out > > Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a > > loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the > > truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know > > defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and > that > > it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module > would > > be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase > the > > Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would > > probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I > guess > > you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you > can > > never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. > > My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document > is > > dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no > repair > > available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not > being > > able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know > BUYER > > BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues > should > > be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me > there > > is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not > take > > the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is > it > > was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be > the > > dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. > > These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: > > 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 > > wheel drive problem > > RANT OFF!!!!! > My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the > vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2 > weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn’t know about > the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3 > meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting > worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was > being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first > time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3 > different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they > have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn’t happen again. > I guess at this point I’d rather be without 4wd then to have it go > into 4wd low while I’m at a highway speed. The dealership told us the > same thing – it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800 > customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of > time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of > customer service because they don’t even return you phone calls. Its > been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should > be available tomorrow (3/28). I’ll believe that when and if… I > just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can’t take > too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their > attention – there is a number in the back of your owners manual to > call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and > customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine – a BBB > center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that > we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is > forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper > parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from > Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now. > What good it will do remains to be seen. I’ll keep you posted on our > progress. Hope you do the same. > The only way you are going to get any response out of GM is to fill with the > BBB. I did 2 weeks ago and got a phone call 2 days later from a new GM CA > person. I told her that I did not want to give back the truck but if she > could not satisfy me with some type of Payoff (I.E. a 5 yr.extended bumper > to bumper warranty with $0 deduct. and to make my payments until it was > fixed right). She agreed to the warranty and will send me a refund for my > first payment ($585) that I made on 3/25/03. My case will be left open until > the permanent fix is done to discuss further payments. The extended warranty > will be issued when the problem is fixed.
Response:
call the dealership and ask when their service rep from gm will be visting the dealerhip the next time. Make an appointment to see the service rep when they are in town. The dealership has a contact point with sales/service ask for that number and ask to speak to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the >vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2 >weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn’t know about >the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3 >meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting >worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was >being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first >time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3 >different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they >have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn’t happen again. > I guess at this point I’d rather be without 4wd then to have it go >into 4wd low while I’m at a highway speed. The dealership told us the >same thing – it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800 >customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of >time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of >customer service because they don’t even return you phone calls. Its >been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should >be available tomorrow (3/28). I’ll believe that when and if… I >just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can’t take >too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their >attention – there is a number in the back of your owners manual to >call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and >customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine – a BBB >center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that >we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is >forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper >parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from >Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now. >What good it will do remains to be seen. I’ll keep you posted on our >progress. Hope you do the same.
—- Elbert Clarke
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > again. > 3-4-03 UPDATE > Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a > document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs > C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) > #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) > I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this > truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies > to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out > Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a > loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the > truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know > defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that > it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would > be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the > Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would > probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess > you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can > never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. > My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is > dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair > available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being > able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER > BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should > be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there > is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take > the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is it > was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the > dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. > These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: > 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 > wheel drive problem > RANT OFF!!!!! > My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the > vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2 > weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn’t know about > the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3 > meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting > worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was > being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first > time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3 > different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they > have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn’t happen again. > I guess at this point I’d rather be without 4wd then to have it go > into 4wd low while I’m at a highway speed. The dealership told us the > same thing – it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800 > customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of > time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of > customer service because they don’t even return you phone calls. Its > been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should > be available tomorrow (3/28). I’ll believe that when and if… I > just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can’t take > too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their > attention – there is a number in the back of your owners manual to > call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and > customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine – a BBB > center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that > we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is > forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper > parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from > Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now. > What good it will do remains to be seen. I’ll keep you posted on our > progress. Hope you do the same.
The only way you are going to get any response out of GM is to fill with the BBB. I did 2 weeks ago and got a phone call 2 days later from a new GM CA person. I told her that I did not want to give back the truck but if she could not satisfy me with some type of Payoff (I.E. a 5 yr.extended bumper to bumper warranty with $0 deduct. and to make my payments until it was fixed right). She agreed to the warranty and will send me a refund for my first payment ($585) that I made on 3/25/03. My case will be left open until the permanent fix is done to discuss further payments. The extended warranty will be issued when the problem is fixed.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just read the bulletin and it says that if the customer "must have" 4wd, > they > will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must > have" > the 4wd available…and let them put in a new encoder motor. > Ian > It does say that but it also said that "Replacing the encoder motor with the > currently designed and released parts will most likely result in another > customer concern in a similar time frame as the original concern." > That just tells me all the parts in the existing trucks are defective as far > as I am concerned. > Michael
You are probably right about that, it sounds to me like GM is aware of a design problem and just hasn’t got a fix available yet. If I were you and needed 4wd I’d go and ask them to replace the encoder motor. If you don’t need 4wd just give them some time to come out with a new and improved version. I would venture a guess that having it replaced now would just result in another trip to the dealer later to have the "new" version installed. In my opinion the downside of replacing it now would be GM just issuing a TSB and not a recall. You could wind up having a poorly designed part that lives long enough to get past the warranty. Ian knows more about this than I do however….. if he follows with any advice you’d be wise to follow it. Bob
Response:
sorry about the double post.
Response:
> I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story.
This is strange. I’ve personally never heard of this issue, but I have an ‘02 Avalanche. I wonder why GM changed ’something’ from ‘02 to ‘03, when the ‘02 seem to work just fine. I saw that you ran this by some forums… Did one of which happen to be: http://www.cafcna.com ? If not, (and if you don’t have a login) I can run this issue by them. -marc
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. >This is strange. I’ve personally never heard of this issue, but >I have an ‘02 Avalanche. I wonder why GM changed ’something’ from >’02 to ‘03, when the ‘02 seem to work just fine. >I saw that you ran this by some forums… Did one of which happen to >be: http://www.cafcna.com ? If not, (and if you don’t have a login) >I can run this issue by them. >-marc
I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year 2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires going into the driver’s door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003. In my case, the lights on the 4wd selector switch developed a mind of their own, changing to different positions by themselves even though the truck remained in 2wd high. This may have first occurred when I started the truck while warm before the various electronics in the system all got to handshake with each other. I heard that when you start these vehicles, you should wait to crank it until all the various warning lights that come on at start up calm down. I am now awaiting a "decoder motor" that the dealer says needs to be replaced, but after reading up on this in various forums, I am not so sure that will be a permanent fix. I suspect this is some kind of software issue. Ray
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the >vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2 >weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn’t know about >the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3 >meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting >worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was >being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first >time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3 >different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they >have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn’t happen again. > I guess at this point I’d rather be without 4wd then to have it go >into 4wd low while I’m at a highway speed. The dealership told us the >same thing – it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800 >customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of >time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of >customer service because they don’t even return you phone calls. Its >been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should >be available tomorrow (3/28). I’ll believe that when and if… I >just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can’t take >too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their >attention – there is a number in the back of your owners manual to >call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and >customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine – a BBB >center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that >we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is >forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper >parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from >Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now. >What good it will do remains to be seen. I’ll keep you posted on our >progress. Hope you do the same.
Your is the first one I have heard of that actually switched itself into 4wd (and 4wd low yet!!! Oy!!). I have had (and who knows, maybe still have?) the same problem on a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. They changed the encoder motor on mine. Would like to hear more about this new fix to be available 3/28. Ray
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > again. > 3-4-03 UPDATE > Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a > document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs > C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) > #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) > I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this > truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies > to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out > Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a > loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the > truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know > defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that > it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would > be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the > Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would > probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess > you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can > never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. > My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is > dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair > available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being > able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER > BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should > be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there > is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take > the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is it > was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the > dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. > These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: > 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 > wheel drive problem > RANT OFF!!!!!
My husband has a 2003 Silverado with the same problem. Picked up the vehicle on 2/1/2003 and the SERVICE 4WD message starting about 2 1/2 weeks later at 454 miles. The dealership said they didn’t know about the bulletin until the beginning of March which means we made 3 meaningless trips to them for service. The situation has been getting worse because the truck self engaged in 4wd low twice while it was being driven. The dealership tried pulling the fuse after the first time it changed gears, but it happened again. Anyway, after trying 3 different fuses, it happened a second time. They told me that they have now disconnected the encoder motor and it shouldn’t happen again. I guess at this point I’d rather be without 4wd then to have it go into 4wd low while I’m at a highway speed. The dealership told us the same thing – it is between you and GM. We tried calling the 800 customer assistance number and found that to be a complete waste of time. They know nothing, and must have forgotten the meaning of customer service because they don’t even return you phone calls. Its been horrible. The dealership told us that GM has a fix that should be available tomorrow (3/28). I’ll believe that when and if… I just hope when it does come in that it really does fix it. Can’t take too much more of this. I will tell you one way of getting their attention – there is a number in the back of your owners manual to call if you are not satisfied with the vehicle and the dealership and customer assistance cannot help you. I believe it is AutoLine – a BBB center in Va. for this kind of problem. We called and told them that we wanted them to take the truck back. All this center can do is forward you the forms you need to complete and ensure the proper parties at GM are notified of your problem. We got a call from Chevrolet within a couple of days. At least someone hears us now. What good it will do remains to be seen. I’ll keep you posted on our progress. Hope you do the same.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > again. > 3-4-03 UPDATE > Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a > document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs > C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) > #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) > I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this > truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies > to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out > Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a > loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the > truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know > defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that > it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would > be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the > Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would > probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess > you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can > never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. > My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is > dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair > available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being > able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER > BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should > be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there > is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take > the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is it > was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the > dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. > These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: > 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 > wheel drive problem > RANT OFF!!!!!
If it was me, I’d stick it up the dealer’s ass, but, I realize you aren’t me. I believe one of the other posters said check on lemon laws, I think that would be a good idea. I would not underestimate the power of the BBB in such ordeals, but its a pain, and they are sometimes a toothless paper tiger, but I have got instant action when I had a business dead to rights with them too. Don’t underestimate the power of "the net" in something like this either. You can file your complaint with them online, and to back it up, I’d also go here: http://www.badbusinessbureau.com (which is what the BBB should have been in the first place. The BBB has to contact the dealer, GM, whoever you tell them to. I’d bypass the dealer if it boiled down to getting action. Go over their head. (Remember the good ole days? I had to write a letter to GM in Detroit, "handwritten," in the early 70’s once to get my third engine replacement inside a 12K warranty that the dealer refused to honor, and they sent one out in a crate the day they got my letter and instructed the dealer who told me they wouldn’t replace it to call me when they got it)! So standing firm works. So, in summarizing, file your complaints, but after filing an identical complaint with www.badbusinessbureau.com, print it out and use it in your dealer and GM communications. Did you borrow the money for the truck? If you did, and are on good terms with your banker, I hear you can dump this thing and they won’t finance that dealer anymore. Thats something that really scares the poop out of them too. Good luck, Para C.
Response:
I have had the same problem in my 03′ 2500HD Silverado as well. I have already had the encoder motor replaced and it has held up thus far(1 month and counting). However, I still think there is problem with 4wd. The shifting from 2 to 4hi doesn’t seem to be as smooth as my 98′ was and when decelerating in 4hi there seems to be a lot noise coming from underneath the truck(not exactly sure what). I’m glad Spring/Summer is close and so won’t have to rely on 4wd for a while, but I would hope that GM get’s a fix out before next winter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of >> the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to >> replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom >> line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea >> when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so >> that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD >> it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure >> what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I >> would appreciate it if you would tell your story. >This is strange. I’ve personally never heard of this issue, but >I have an ‘02 Avalanche. I wonder why GM changed ’something’ from >’02 to ‘03, when the ‘02 seem to work just fine. >I saw that you ran this by some forums… Did one of which happen to >be: http://www.cafcna.com ? If not, (and if you don’t have a login) >I can run this issue by them. >-marc > I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year > 2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system > involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the > ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires > going into the driver’s door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I > wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003. > In my case, the lights on the 4wd selector switch developed a mind of > their own, changing to different positions by themselves even though > the truck remained in 2wd high. This may have first occurred when I > started the truck while warm before the various electronics in the > system all got to handshake with each other. I heard that when you > start these vehicles, you should wait to crank it until all the > various warning lights that come on at start up calm down. > I am now awaiting a "decoder motor" that the dealer says needs to be > replaced, but after reading up on this in various forums, I am not so > sure that will be a permanent fix. > I suspect this is some kind of software issue. > Ray
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Do you know if this activator switch problem is only a 2003 problem or have the older models been prone to this failure also? If so, do you know which models as I am planning on buying a newer used 4×4 to replace my old 82 Chevy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> by the way, the red lightflashing on mine NEVER hindered the 2wd or 4wd…it > stayed like it was and when i stopped and went into park and back in to > gear, it reset…. > 03 GMC sierra 2500 HD…yes twice the lights went all over the place but > nothing other than warning signs happenned…am going to dealer next > tuesday… > and my wife so wanted the Ford that with all the discounts and rebates was > about $6000 cheaper… > > It not a normal 4 wheel drive noice, I have had several. This sounds > like > a > > gear or wheel noise, somewhat like a brake shoe dragging, but it only > does > > it when in 4-wheel or 4-wheel auto. > > > > I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime > I > am > > in > > > > four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise > > everytime a > > > > wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said > they > > > > found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still > > there. > > > > They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. > > > > Do you have a noise? > > > > Any ideas, anyone? > > > It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all > > > kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive, > > > when I’m on the throttle. > > > The only other noise I’m getting from my ‘02 is the whine from > > > the rear diff. There’s a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft > > > with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know > > > a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently > > > there were some machining flaws in the diff housing. > > > I’ve got 4.10’s for what it’s worth… > > > -marc
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by the way, the red lightflashing on mine NEVER hindered the 2wd or 4wd…it stayed like it was and when i stopped and went into park and back in to gear, it reset….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 03 GMC sierra 2500 HD…yes twice the lights went all over the place but > nothing other than warning signs happenned…am going to dealer next > tuesday… > and my wife so wanted the Ford that with all the discounts and rebates was > about $6000 cheaper… > It not a normal 4 wheel drive noice, I have had several. This sounds like > a > gear or wheel noise, somewhat like a brake shoe dragging, but it only does > it when in 4-wheel or 4-wheel auto. > > > I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime I > am > in > > > four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise > everytime a > > > wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said > they > > > found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still > there. > > > They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. > > > Do you have a noise? > > > Any ideas, anyone? > > It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all > > kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive, > > when I’m on the throttle. > > The only other noise I’m getting from my ‘02 is the whine from > > the rear diff. There’s a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft > > with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know > > a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently > > there were some machining flaws in the diff housing. > > I’ve got 4.10’s for what it’s worth… > > -marc
Response:
03 GMC sierra 2500 HD…yes twice the lights went all over the place but nothing other than warning signs happenned…am going to dealer next tuesday… and my wife so wanted the Ford that with all the discounts and rebates was about $6000 cheaper…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It not a normal 4 wheel drive noice, I have had several. This sounds like a > gear or wheel noise, somewhat like a brake shoe dragging, but it only does > it when in 4-wheel or 4-wheel auto. > > I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime I am > in > > four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise > everytime a > > wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said they > > found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still > there. > > They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. > > Do you have a noise? > > Any ideas, anyone? > It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all > kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive, > when I’m on the throttle. > The only other noise I’m getting from my ‘02 is the whine from > the rear diff. There’s a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft > with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know > a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently > there were some machining flaws in the diff housing. > I’ve got 4.10’s for what it’s worth… > -marc
Response:
It not a normal 4 wheel drive noice, I have had several. This sounds like a gear or wheel noise, somewhat like a brake shoe dragging, but it only does it when in 4-wheel or 4-wheel auto.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime I am in > four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise everytime a > wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said they > found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still there. > They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. > Do you have a noise? > Any ideas, anyone? > It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all > kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive, > when I’m on the throttle. > The only other noise I’m getting from my ‘02 is the whine from > the rear diff. There’s a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft > with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know > a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently > there were some machining flaws in the diff housing. > I’ve got 4.10’s for what it’s worth… > -marc
Response:
> I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year > 2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system > involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the > ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires > going into the driver’s door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I > wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003.
That’s right… I forgot they updraded the electrical system. Sounds like you’re on the right track here… -marc
Response:
> I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime I am in > four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise everytime a > wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said they > found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still there. > They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. > Do you have a noise? > Any ideas, anyone?
It it just common four wheel drive noise? Mine makes all kinds of light rumbling and resonating noises in four wheel drive, when I’m on the throttle. The only other noise I’m getting from my ‘02 is the whine from the rear diff. There’s a TSB out there to replace the driveshaft with a dampened unit, if the customer complains enough. I know a few guys who got a compele rear end out of the deal. Apparently there were some machining flaws in the diff housing. I’ve got 4.10’s for what it’s worth… -marc
Response:
>In my opinion this problem is a lot more than they are willing to admit to >at this point. I have had some communications with an insider at GM and this >person feels there is a major electrical control problem. Delphi engineers >are getting all kinds of instrument clusters back that are just shutting >down in the trucks but when they test them in the lab the find nothing wrong >with them. This persons thinks that the cold weather is effecting the >electronic controls. I would not be surprised if a recall comes out of this. >The document I have which states There is no permanent fix at this time says >that the change in the encoder is not a final fix. I am supposed to get a >call from customer service on Thursday. Lets see what they say.
Yes, it would be interesting to see what they do say. Please post. Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
I have a 2003 Avalanche, 4 wheel drive also. I have a noise anytime I am in four wheel auto or four wheel. It sounds like a rotational noise everytime a wheel make a rotation. My dealer pulled the transfer case and said they found a snap ring retainer missing. The noise is now less but still there. They now say they are waiting on GM for an answer. Do you have a noise? Any ideas, anyone? dean
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have had the same problem in my 03′ 2500HD Silverado as well. I have > already had the encoder motor replaced and it has held up thus far(1 month > and counting). However, I still think there is problem with 4wd. The > shifting from 2 to 4hi doesn’t seem to be as smooth as my 98′ was and when > decelerating in 4hi there seems to be a lot noise coming from underneath the > truck(not exactly sure what). I’m glad Spring/Summer is close and so won’t > have to rely on 4wd for a while, but I would hope that GM get’s a fix out > before next winter. > >> I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the > gist of > >> the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > >> replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the > bottom > >> line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know > idea > >> when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD > fuse so > >> that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in > 4WD > >> it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not > sure > >> what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition > I > >> would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > >This is strange. I’ve personally never heard of this issue, but > >I have an ‘02 Avalanche. I wonder why GM changed ’something’ from > >’02 to ‘03, when the ‘02 seem to work just fine. > >I saw that you ran this by some forums… Did one of which happen to > >be: http://www.cafcna.com ? If not, (and if you don’t have a login) > >I can run this issue by them. > >-marc > I have a similar problem with a 2003 Sierra 2500HD. For model year > 2003, it appears GM went to a different wiring/control system > involving fewer actual hard wire circuits and more electronics on the > ends of the wires. I understand that there used to be over 50 wires > going into the driver’s door, and for 2003 there are less than 20. I > wonder if this has something to do with this problem for 2003. > In my case, the lights on the 4wd selector switch developed a mind of > their own, changing to different positions by themselves even though > the truck remained in 2wd high. This may have first occurred when I > started the truck while warm before the various electronics in the > system all got to handshake with each other. I heard that when you > start these vehicles, you should wait to crank it until all the > various warning lights that come on at start up calm down. > I am now awaiting a "decoder motor" that the dealer says needs to be > replaced, but after reading up on this in various forums, I am not so > sure that will be a permanent fix. > I suspect this is some kind of software issue. > Ray
In my opinion this problem is a lot more than they are willing to admit to at this point. I have had some communications with an insider at GM and this person feels there is a major electrical control problem. Delphi engineers are getting all kinds of instrument clusters back that are just shutting down in the trucks but when they test them in the lab the find nothing wrong with them. This persons thinks that the cold weather is effecting the electronic controls. I would not be surprised if a recall comes out of this. The document I have which states There is no permanent fix at this time says that the change in the encoder is not a final fix. I am supposed to get a call from customer service on Thursday. Lets see what they say.
Response:
> I just read the bulletin and it says that if the customer "must have" 4wd, > they > will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must have" > the 4wd available…and let them put in a new encoder motor. > Ian
It does say that but it also said that "Replacing the encoder motor with the currently designed and released parts will most likely result in another customer concern in a similar time frame as the original concern." That just tells me all the parts in the existing trucks are defective as far as I am concerned. Michael
Response:
"Bowhunter1"> wrote > I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > again.
I just read the bulletin and it says that if the customer "must have" 4wd, they will put a new encoder motor into the truck. Tell them that you "must have" the 4wd available…and let them put in a new encoder motor. Ian
Response:
I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on again. 3-4-03 UPDATE Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I would appreciate it if you would tell your story. I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is it was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 wheel drive problem RANT OFF!!!!!
Response:
how long is the recourse period in your state? in KY (the only state I’ve ever bought a new vehicle) you had 5 business days to return the vehicle for ANY reason and the HAD to give you your money back. I’m glad my 88 k2500 has a shifter on the floor, now I only wish it had manual hubs and a straight axle in front over the IFS and CAD (though it is MUCH better since I put in the 98+ actuator and harness). but you buy what they build…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just picked up a 2003 Avalanche on 2/25/03. On the second day (2/27/03) of > owning the truck the Service 4WD light came on. It had only 120 miles on the > truck at the time and the 4WD had never been used. I called my dealer and > set up an appointment for 3/4/03 to put it on the scanner and find out what > codes were stored and try to figure out the problem.On the third day of > ownership the light came on again and aslo on the fifth day it came on > again. > 3-4-03 UPDATE > Just got back from the dealer. They found code C0327. They handed me a > document with ID # 1243149 which stated 4WD LIGHT, 4WD INOPERATIVE, DTCs > C0327, P0836, P0500 (PERMANENT FIX NOT AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME) > #03-0-21-001 – (02/14/2003) > I do not have the time right know to type the whole thing in but the gist of > the document is that there is a problem with one of the modules and to > replace it with a new one at this time is not going to help. So the bottom > line is I may or may not have 4WD when I need it and they have know idea > when they will have a fix. There only solution was to remove the 4WD fuse so > that the 4WD system would be inoperative. If the module failed when in 4WD > it would be stuck in 4WD. Then I would not be able to drive it. Not sure > what to do at this point. If anybody has experience with this condition I > would appreciate it if you would tell your story. > I did a little reading on some Avalanche Forums Prior to purchasing this > truck and read about various trucks having this problem. Most of the replies > to question about this problem were answered with "The dealer changed out > Various control Modules or that the Switch was replaced or they found a > loose connection." During the discussions with my dealer to purchase the > truck I asked specifically about the problem and if there were any know > defects in this system. His answer was he had heard of the problem and that > it was not a big deal that most of the time the switch or the module would > be switched and the problem was solved. I made my discussion to purchase the > Avalanche with the knowledge that if this issue arises that it would > probably happen right away and would be covered under the warranty. I guess > you can never do enough research prior to a purchase like this and you can > never believe most of the dealers answers to your questions. > My point about the dealer answers to the questions is that the document is > dated (02/14/2003). It was already a known issue that there was no repair > available prior to my purchase. Had I been advised of these issues not being > able to be repaired I would not have purchased this product. I know BUYER > BEWARE. I feel that these issues and any other non repairable issues should > be disclosed at the time of purchase. Basically my dealer has told me there > is nothing that they can do for me until GM has a fix. They will not take > the car back. They told me it is GM’s problem now. My answer to them is it > was my problem and as long as I have to own this car it is going to be the > dealers problem also. Basically I paid $4000 extra for a 2 WD Avalanche. > These are the vehicles listed on the document that are effected: > 2003 Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Silverado, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL 4 > wheel drive problem > RANT OFF!!!!!
