Slow gas guages
Question:
>Since there is no generic Ford newsgroup I figured I’d crosspost to the >existing ones – >I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have very slow gas >guages. It takes them forever to show how much gas is in the tank. >Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least their 1989 to >present models. >Any comments/insights appreciated.
All I can say is that I agree with you. On my chevies I can jab the brake when the gas is low and make the needle wiggle so I can tell if I’m down to the last couple teaspoons but on the FORD You can drive off a cliff and the gauge will just sit there.
Response:
Since there is no generic Ford newsgroup I figured I’d crosspost to the existing ones – I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have very slow gas guages. It takes them forever to show how much gas is in the tank. Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least their 1989 to present models. Any comments/insights appreciated. Thanks much in advance. Scott Ehrlich Consulting "The Computer Doctor"
Response:
> I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have > very slow gas guages. It takes them forever to show how much > gas is in the tank. > Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least > their 1989 to present models. Ford intensionally designed heavy dampening into their fuel gauge. They reason that normally hilly driving will wobble the needle to much and confuse the feeble-minded drivers. Consider the bogus oil pressure guage (it’s an idiot light with a gauge faceplate boys n girls) that they foist upon it’s consumers, and it’s obvious that Ford reasons that accurite engine information is not needed by the vehicle operators. Another of Ford’s better ideas…yeah right! — |
Response:
>Consider the bogus oil pressure guage (it’s an idiot light with >a gauge faceplate boys n girls) that they foist upon it’s consumers, >and it’s obvious that Ford reasons that accurite engine information >is not needed by the vehicle operators….
What kind of Ford do you have? My Mustang has a *real* guage. The oil pressure is noticeably higher with 20W50 than it was with that 5W30 (water) I previously mentioned… Bradley Sanders Supreme Commander, Internacionale Moustache Wax http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1303
Response:
> > I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have > very slow gas guages. It takes them forever to show how much > gas is in the tank. > Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least > their 1989 to present models. >Ford intensionally designed heavy dampening into their fuel gauge. >They reason that normally hilly driving will wobble the needle to >much and confuse the feeble-minded drivers.
Huh? Hill driving in ** ALL ** their vehicles? That’s taking it a bit too far. Maybe the SUV and pickup market, but not daily commuter cars. They couldn’t have been that extensive with the idea. Then again, I make it my job not to assume… >Consider the bogus oil pressure guage (it’s an idiot light with >a gauge faceplate boys n girls) that they foist upon it’s consumers, >and it’s obvious that Ford reasons that accurite engine information >is not needed by the vehicle operators. Another of Ford’s better >ideas…yeah right!
Scott Ehrlich Consulting "The Computer Doctor"
Response:
> Since there is no generic Ford newsgroup I figured I’d crosspost to the > existing ones – > I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have very slow gas > guages. It takes them forever to show how much gas is in the tank. > Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least their 1989 to > present models.
This is actually better, IMHO. In my 95 Trans Am, the gauge is too sensitive and it fluctuates by a quarter tank when cornering, braking and accelerating. It really bugs the hell out of me! However my 87 Mustang GT doesn’t do that at all, it is much more accurate this way I think. When my GT says a half tank, it’s a half tank. When my TA says it’s a half tank there is actually only about a 1/4 to 1/3rd left in the tank. The actual halfway point is just slightly below the 3/4 mark. I would not worry about how fast it takes to show a change, why would you need it to be fast reacting anyways? Patrick Gattafoni 95 Trans Am 87 Mustang GT Paxton supercharged
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Since there is no generic Ford newsgroup I figured I’d crosspost to the > existing ones – > I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have very slow gas > guages. It takes them forever to show how much gas is in the tank. > Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least their 1989 to > present models. > Any comments/insights appreciated. > Thanks much in advance. > Scott Ehrlich Consulting "The Computer Doctor"
I don’t seem to have a problem with it on my Escort, but on my Tempo I can top it off ’til gas is running out on my feet and it still shows it’s down 1/8 from full. I suppose that’s more accuracy than reaction. My 94 GMC truck swings a good 1/4 tank when cornering or braking. That bugs me. Don’t ever know for sure where it’s really at. Have to take an average. JR
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Since there is no generic Ford newsgroup I figured I’d crosspost to the > existing ones – > I have driven various Tempos and Escorts, both of which have very slow gas > guages. It takes them forever to show how much gas is in the tank. > Is there any reason for this? It is a problem from at least their 1989 to > present models. > Any comments/insights appreciated. > Thanks much in advance. > Scott Ehrlich Consulting "The Computer Doctor"
what do you mean By "forever" ? It could just be relative. Most ford newer cars have a averaging circuit built into the gas gauge circuit. This circuit shows you a average level instead of the true level at that instant. The idea behind this is to smooth out the irreguarities in level due to the fuel sloshing around while driving. Without this circuit the fuel gauge would constantly wander up and down everytime you hit a bump or turned a corner, kinda like the old Chevy’s did in the 60’s and 70’s. maybe 1) the circuit or component that perfroms this is bad or 2)ya need to slow down and smell the roses <grin> — Bruce Musgrove "Always reach for new heights. Use the drapes, that is what they are there for." from the musings of Master Meow
Response:
>>Consider the bogus oil pressure guage (it’s an idiot light with >a gauge faceplate boys n girls) that they foist upon it’s consumers, >and it’s obvious that Ford reasons that accurite engine information >is not needed by the vehicle operators…. >What kind of Ford do you have? My Mustang has a *real* guage. The oil >pressure is noticeably higher with 20W50 than it was with that 5W30 >(water) I previously mentioned…
I have a ‘91 5.0 LX and the stock oil gauge is always right in the middle. Whether I’m at idle or at 6000 RPM, it does not move. The only time I’ve seen it anywhere besides "normal" is after changing the oil. Then it stays at 0 for a few seconds before jumping up to the middle. It’s too bad Ford didn’t put in a real oil pressure sender. The gauge is already there – why not make it read like a real gauge? Perhaps the average driver would get confused by the fluctuating oil pressure so Ford just put in a glorified idiot light. Chris
Response:
> >Consider the bogus oil pressure guage > What kind of Ford do you have? My Mustang has a *real* guage.
In case you have not been listening, it is well established that EXPLORERS and some trucks are equipped with a 2 state oil pressure indicator – under 7psi and it goes to zero, anything over 7 reads some value in the "normal" range – (always the same reading) as established by a 20 ohm resistor in the console. There have been several work arounds posted in this group which relate to changing the sensor and removing the resistor. Jfreitag — THE REPLY, OF COURSE, DOES NOT REPRESENT ANY OFFICIAL POSITION OF THE UNIVERSITY, only my personal opinion.
Response:
>I have a ‘91 5.0 LX and the stock oil gauge is always right in the middle. >Whether I’m at idle or at 6000 RPM, it does not move. The only time I’ve >seen it anywhere besides "normal" is after changing the oil. Then it stays >at 0 for a few seconds before jumping up to the middle. It’s too bad Ford >didn’t put in a real oil pressure sender. The gauge is already there – why >not make it read like a real gauge?
The gauge IS a real gauge. The sender is ALSO a "real" sender. There is only one sender for these 5.0L cars, so if you do indeed have a "switch" someone must have put a 2.3L sender on your car! ALL the Ford gauges are very well damped (even, unfortunately, the tach). The gas gauge don’t slip up and down every time you hit the brakes or make a left turn, the voltage gauge don’t bounce up and down every time you start the car, the temp gauge don’t go up and down every time the thermostat opens (unless the thermostat gets stuck, that is) – and the oil pressure don’t bump up and down every time you rev the engine. That does NOT mean, however, it’s a "switch." To HOPEFULLY put an end to all this nonsense, I actually went to my garage and dug out an old sender from my ‘87 5.0L. Using my bench grinder, I cut the case open. If I had a "snappy" I’d take a picture of it an put it on my web page just so y’all could see with your own eyes these things DO have "analog" oil pressure senders. The sender has a small pintle moving a bifurcated wiper which contacts, at an angle, a winding of resistance wire. On this sender, the cold resistance of this winding is approximately 3000 Ohms (I’m sure the hot resistance would be higher). Unfortunately, wirewound pots wear – and this is just a very specialized "pot." When they wear, they develop dropouts, or noise, or just quit working altogether. This is no different than a radio developing "dead spots" on the volume control. The wiper in this sender, at zero pressure, is visibly not in contact with the filament. When the wiper finally DOES make contact it is very far up on the winding, and it just goes to that previously mentioned 3000 Ohms. In my car, my oil pressure was "stuck" at about 80 PSI! IF you have an oil pressure gauge that appears to be "all or nothing," GO BUY ANOTHER SENDER! They’re about 20 bucks from Ford. Chances are your parts man has one in stock. They are so ridiculously easy to change anyone with a 9/16" (or 15mm) spanner wrench could do it in less than a minute – and if you’re careful, you won’t even get your mitts dirty. Then you can do "as I did." Cut your old sender apart, and see for yourself: Ford does INDEED put "real" oil pressure senders in these cars…. Bradley Sanders Supreme Commander, Internacionale Moustache Wax http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1303
Response:
>In case you have not been listening, it is well established that >EXPLORERS and some trucks are equipped with a 2 state oil pressure >indicator…
And my ‘81 Cougar has a "one state" indicator: either there’s pressure, or there isn’t. However, as long as I have been hanging around this newsgroup (almost two years now) folks have been lamenting the "oil pressure switch" in cars that DO have ‘real" senders: most notably, the vehicles mentioned in the title of this newsgroup: Mustangs. The fact is only VERY few "gauge" equipped models – and certainly not this group’s namesake – have this rather peculiar "feature." Bradley Sanders Supreme Commander, Internacionale Moustache Wax http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1303
Response:
>>I have a ‘91 5.0 LX and the stock oil gauge is always right in the middle. >Whether I’m at idle or at 6000 RPM, it does not move. The only time I’ve >seen it anywhere besides "normal" is after changing the oil. Then it stays >at 0 for a few seconds before jumping up to the middle. It’s too bad Ford >didn’t put in a real oil pressure sender. The gauge is already there – why >not make it read like a real gauge? >The gauge IS a real gauge. The sender is ALSO a "real" sender. There >is only one sender for these 5.0L cars, so if you do indeed have a >"switch" someone must have put a 2.3L sender on your car!
In many Ford vehicles Ford has NOT put in a real sender unit. They have put a resister in the circuit and used a simple on off switch as the "sender" unit. This is a known fact for the Explorers and some of the other truck lines. It is also a known fact for many of the Chevies too. My 95 Caprice has only an on-off switch for a "sender" and the gauge never moves. >ALL the Ford gauges are very well damped (even, unfortunately, the >tach). The gas gauge don’t slip up and down every time you hit the >brakes or make a left turn, the voltage gauge don’t bounce up and down
My voltmeter do move quickly and often in both my 92 Exp and my 88 Mustang. >every time you start the car, the temp gauge don’t go up and down >every time the thermostat opens (unless the thermostat gets stuck, >that is)
Water temp changes relatively slowly so gauge damping is a moot point for that application. - and the oil pressure don’t bump up and down every time you >rev the engine. That does NOT mean, however, it’s a "switch."
While the gauge has some damping it most certainly does move fairly quickly when you rev the engine, much faster then the grossly over damped gas level gauge. >To HOPEFULLY put an end to all this nonsense, I actually went to my >garage and dug out an old sender from my ‘87 5.0L. Using my bench >grinder, I cut the case open. If I had a "snappy" I’d take a picture >of it an put it on my web page just so y’all could see with your own >eyes these things DO have "analog" oil pressure senders.
I don’t doubt your 87 had a real sender. However, many Ford (and Chevy too) applications do not use a real sender.
Response:
>In many Ford vehicles Ford has NOT put in a real sender unit.
I KNOW Ford (and GM, and Honda, and Chrysler, and …) don’t use a ‘real" sender in EVERY vehicle: I said this in the first paragraph. > They have put a >resister in the circuit and used a simple on off switch as the "sender" unit. >This is a known fact for the Explorers and some of the other truck lines. It >is also a known fact for many of the Chevies too. My 95 Caprice has only an >on-off switch for a "sender" and the gauge never moves.
LOTS of cars do this. It is NOT done, however, in 5.0l MUSTANGS – as FAR too many folks here seem to believe. And if you don’t believe this is true, just go back here a few messages. Bradley Sanders Supreme Commander, Internacionale Moustache Wax http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1303
Response:
>>>Consider the bogus oil pressure guage (it’s an idiot light with >>a gauge faceplate boys n girls) that they foist upon it’s consumers…. >What kind of Ford do you have? My Mustang has a *real* guage. The oil >pressure is noticeably higher with 20W50 than it was with that 5W30… >I have a ‘91 5.0 LX and the stock oil gauge is always right in the middle. >Whether I’m at idle or at 6000 RPM, it does not move. The only time I’ve >seen it anywhere besides "normal" is after changing the oil. Then it stays >at 0 for a few seconds before jumping up to the middle. It’s too bad Ford >didn’t put in a real oil pressure sender. The gauge is already there – why >not make it read like a real gauge? Perhaps the average driver would get >confused by the fluctuating oil pressure so Ford just put in a glorified >idiot light.
I have a ‘90 Mustang GT and it is definitely a *real* oil gauge. When driving, the needle usually hovers a little below the 3/4 area. When I slow down at a red light, I can watch the needle drop down to about 1/4 and the needle will actually waver a moment as the lower pressure settles in. When the red light goes green and I hit the gas, I can watch the needle climb back up. This is all very noticeable when the car is little low on oil. Just after an oil change, there’s not much change in pressure whether the car is moving or idle. I’ve heard about the Explorer idiot gauge before, and I think its a shame that Ford has done this in such an expensive vehicle.
Response:
> The gauge IS a real gauge. The sender is ALSO a "real" sender. > There is only one sender for these 5.0L cars, so if you do > indeed have a "switch" someone must have put a 2.3L sender on > your car! Maybe in your particular vehicle but not in the Explorer. It is a switch driving a gauge through a resistor. It’s in the Ford manual. I have removed the resistor from the back of the gauge panel and have replaced the sender with an analog sender. Now it works. Ford’s better idea sucks big time. It’s not just the Explorer either that has been factory hosed. Numerous other models are also screwed up also. Ford thinks the drivers are stupid and they are trying to simplify our concerns. Might as well cover the gauge with cardboard for all the good the gauge does. FWIW — I wouldn’t do the mod again as the gauge is heavily dampened. I have bought a S-W gauge set but haven’t installed it yet. Real Soon Now (sm)…
