Chevy "soft cams"????
Question:
>I too agree with Sam. I have noticed through the years the cars we >serviced ran either Amaco or Valvoline. Val if I had any say so. When we >tore into the engines that we serviced regular basis they looked good >inside. The cars that run the Pennsylvania crudes seem to build up more >sludge or tarnish on the internals. Maybe I am crazy on this next point >but it also seemed that Fords were more suseptable to oil damage by the >Penn. Crudes. GM’s were affected but not as much as F.M. CO. Maybe I am >biased but that i ssome experiance I would like to share with you. I >personally use Valvoline and have for several years. >Mark S. >– > "My Opinions" >"Constructive Opinions Boast Character, Negetive Promotes Disillusions"
I was always under ther impression that Valvoline was a Pennsylvania crude. I used to know the difference in the crudes but have forgotten that over the years. Seems like one is aromatic, and the other classified as aliphatic, or something to that effect. I have always favored the Penn. oils myself. and have used quite a bit of valvoline over the years with very little sludging. Tore apart a Ford one time that I had just purchased with about 100k miles on it, and the sludge was molded to the inside of the rocker covers just like a jello mold. I don’t know what they had been using!!!! Folklore around here has it that Quaker State is about the worst for sludging….I’ve never used it for that reason, so don’t know from personal experience. I’m inclined to agree with those, though that say driving habits and changing habits have more affect on this than the oil used. A friend services forklifts, and changes the oil on a monthly schedule rather than engine hours, sometimes changing at low engine hours in a month, and those engines look new on the inside! Running the engine long enough to dry up any condensation every time it is started seems to make sense in helping to prevent sludge. That, along with reasonable change intervals is probably the key. But back to the soft cams, we had an 82 Chevy with 305 that ate a camshaft at 50k miles, There was very little wear evident in the rest of the engine with the exception of rods and mains, which the debris from the cam ground up. Cylinder bores were still within spec with almost no ridge at the top of the cylinders. Pistons had very little wear and there was no sludging. We had just purchased the vehicle, used , and had no history of how it had ben serviced, or what type oil was used.
Response:
I too agree with Sam. I have noticed through the years the cars we serviced ran either Amaco or Valvoline. Val if I had any say so. When we tore into the engines that we serviced regular basis they looked good inside. The cars that run the Pennsylvania crudes seem to build up more sludge or tarnish on the internals. Maybe I am crazy on this next point but it also seemed that Fords were more suseptable to oil damage by the Penn. Crudes. GM’s were affected but not as much as F.M. CO. Maybe I am biased but that i ssome experiance I would like to share with you. I personally use Valvoline and have for several years. Mark S. — "My Opinions" "Constructive Opinions Boast Character, Negetive Promotes Disillusions"
Response:
Being a shop owner, engine builder, etc…. also having crewed on a Pennzoil-sponsored car that ran TORCO as the engine oil (strategically placed in Pennzoil drums). I can tell you from experience that Pennzoil and Quaker State have the highest paraffin contents of any oil and made the least HP as well as lowest heat dissipation and highest engine wear of any engines we dynoed during testing. Is a $200,000 race dyno/data acquisition system considered qualified data to you? The reasons for your "lack of maintenance" comparison to "upgrade oils" is ludicrous. First, Pennzoil and Quaker State license these business as Franchises. Meaning, they are partly owned by these either of these two oil companies. Second, just like Coke and Pepsi, in many instances, the oil is so cheap (or free) to these vendors based upon their Franchise Fees that it is the easiest to get as being the most profitable. In the machine shop, the highest concentrations of buildup and sludge, even in 3,000 mile interval religious changes, Pennzoil and Quaker State have the worst. The only Valvoline, Castrol, Kendall, etc engines I’ve ever seen come in in that condition were usually assaulted by STP (another Pennzoil company) or driven out of oil to where things burnt up. Still, there was not the massive buildups as with these two described oils. Also stated, Pennzoil has recently spent Millions of Dollars redesigning their refineries to "get with the program" of making oils that are better for our cars. Less crap and more quality. I actually look forward to this. I neither work or am affiliated with any oil companies at all either. I’m stating this from "MY" experience with multi-million dollar race teams, dyno tests, walk-in customers to my machine shop and my own personal tests and evaluations. Any time I get a car or engine in, I ask what oils they have been using. In many cases one can tell by the smell of the oil as to how well this vehicle has been maintained. "My Opinion" … based upon the above resume, states that "I’ll Pass" on those two oils …. All my new engines break-in with Valvoline, my regular service customers get Valvoline, Castrol, Mobil, Mobil-1, or Torco. Myself, all my cars use Torco… Now, for the uneducated public, for which most should not own a motorized "anything", an oil change is an oil change. To them, one company makes all the oils and puts them in different colored containers. For this reason all they look for is simplicity to life. Oil changes are a chore unwanted and PennStops and Q-Lubes are the places to be. Like the reason for the bypass at your oil filter connection … the REAL reason that is there is for moron safety. Morons that forget to change the filter, run gear oil because it’s laying around in daddy’s barn, etc. When the pressure gets too high from a clogged filter, the oil bypasses the filter. Smooth move huh? Do you want your oil going through your engine unfiltered? Hell NO! But Sally & Joe Public are too mechanically ignorant, even in 1998, to properly maintain their cars …. now we have 100,000 mile service intervals. The affects of this should be interesting! Talk to professional engine builders, racers, etc … you will see, that all the bypasses on our engines have been removed, plugged, or otherwise disabled. The only racers not following this guideline are usually plain ignorant, married to their Daddy’s sister or making babies with farm animals! Sam Solace Century Performance Center http://www.centuryperformance.com Race Parts, Tech, Chat Room for "Racers", Newsgroup, LOW PRICES, the Internet’s FIRST "Online Speed Shop" … Built by racers, For racers! (888) 682-5009 Toll-Free order line (702) 770-1057 Tech and Help Line – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >"Don’t use Pennzoil or Quaker State." Looks like there’s another "old >wife" telling tales … do you know that Pennzoil is one of the few >lubricant manufacturers using hydrocracked base stock? Do you understand >why that’s better? If you don’t, then do some studying and come back. >BTW, Pennzoil has (and has had for a many years) BY FAR the largest number >of dealerships, quick lubes, etc. that use Pennzoil as their "house" >lubricant (over 50% of the installed market). This means that unless a >person chooses an "upgrade," they get Pennzoil by default. >Now, let’s see … people who request a specific oil brand are more likely >to care how their car is maintained and, thus, have their oil changed more >often. Since Pennzoil is more often the "default" oil, it’s exposed more >frequently to poor maintenance practices, than the supposed "upgrade" oils >such as Castrol and Valvoline. >Given this difference in risk exposure, I really don’t think it’s very fair >to make anecdotal comparisons of oil brands, even among technicians with >many years of experience. The only fair comparisons are based upon >standardized, industry accepted test data, which is available upon request >from all oil manufacturers. If anyone is interested, I have a list of very >informative websites that provide lots of actual, not anecdotal, data. >And, no, I don’t work for Pennzoil. I’m just a car freak who’s very >interested in "tribology," the study of lubricating oils. The oil I use? >Chevron Delo 0w-30 Synthetic. In Southern California. Let’s go, "old >wives …" >– >"Be good, or be good at it!" > No such thing … cam failure is caused by lifters that stop rotating or >too > much spring pressure, or lack of oil. So, change your oil and filter > regularly and DO NOT use Pennzoil or Quaker State. > cut
Response:
"Don’t use Pennzoil or Quaker State." Looks like there’s another "old wife" telling tales … do you know that Pennzoil is one of the few lubricant manufacturers using hydrocracked base stock? Do you understand why that’s better? If you don’t, then do some studying and come back. BTW, Pennzoil has (and has had for a many years) BY FAR the largest number of dealerships, quick lubes, etc. that use Pennzoil as their "house" lubricant (over 50% of the installed market). This means that unless a person chooses an "upgrade," they get Pennzoil by default. Now, let’s see … people who request a specific oil brand are more likely to care how their car is maintained and, thus, have their oil changed more often. Since Pennzoil is more often the "default" oil, it’s exposed more frequently to poor maintenance practices, than the supposed "upgrade" oils such as Castrol and Valvoline. Given this difference in risk exposure, I really don’t think it’s very fair to make anecdotal comparisons of oil brands, even among technicians with many years of experience. The only fair comparisons are based upon standardized, industry accepted test data, which is available upon request from all oil manufacturers. If anyone is interested, I have a list of very informative websites that provide lots of actual, not anecdotal, data. And, no, I don’t work for Pennzoil. I’m just a car freak who’s very interested in "tribology," the study of lubricating oils. The oil I use? Chevron Delo 0w-30 Synthetic. In Southern California. Let’s go, "old wives …" — "Be good, or be good at it!" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No such thing … cam failure is caused by lifters that stop rotating or too > much spring pressure, or lack of oil. So, change your oil and filter > regularly and DO NOT use Pennzoil or Quaker State. > cut
Response:
I use to own a 79 full size blazer(loved it!!) one of the problems I had is the lobes on the cam rounded off. I was told that chevy had a few years of these "soft cams". Could anyone tell me what all those years were???? I am now looking at a 82 weebcraft with a chevy enigine, and don’t want to run into the same problem. If you could e-mail me with the comments, thanks……. TODD W. DAVIS
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> I use to own a 79 full size blazer(loved it!!) one of the problems I > had is the lobes on the cam rounded off. I was told that chevy had a > few years of these "soft cams". Could anyone tell me what all those > years were???? I am now looking at a 82 weebcraft with a chevy > enigine, and don’t want to run into the same problem. > If you could e-mail me with the comments, thanks……. > TODD W. DAVIS
That wasn’t the problem. The problem has some of the lifters were slightly oversize and would hang in the bores, causing the cam lobes to grind into dust. My father-in-law went to arbitration on this (GM had an internal form with the main fields already filled in so they KNOW the problem exists) and won-they had to replace the cam and lifters in his 82′ Camaro with the 305 V-8. He had all the docs for his oil changes and they’ll try to get you on that point.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I use to own a 79 full size blazer(loved it!!) one of the problems I > had is the lobes on the cam rounded off. I was told that chevy had a > few years of these "soft cams". Could anyone tell me what all those > years were???? I am now looking at a 82 weebcraft with a chevy > enigine, and don’t want to run into the same problem. > If you could e-mail me with the comments, thanks……. > TODD W. DAVIS > That wasn’t the problem. The problem has some of the lifters were > slightly oversize and would hang in the bores, causing the cam lobes to > grind into dust. My father-in-law went to arbitration on this (GM had > an internal form with the main fields already filled in so they KNOW the > problem exists) and won-they had to replace the cam and lifters in his > 82′ Camaro with the 305 V-8. He had all the docs for his oil changes > and they’ll try to get you on that point.
Doug, How many miles did your father-in-law get on his 82 Camaro 305 before the repair? Mine went about 100K miles before the cam lobe went flat. I paid for the repair myself, figured GM wouldn’t help after that many miles. Think they’d reimburse me after all that time? <g> — Cheers, Steve 82 Z28 96 K1500 The opinions expressed here are mine alone and do not represent those of my employer or any one else. "It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave…" Moody Blues
Response:
I remember my dad’s 1977 Olds Delta 88 with the Chev-built (code L) 350 was a victim of soft cams as well. — [Always be sincere whether you mean it or not.]
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No such thing … cam failure is caused by lifters that stop rotating or too much spring pressure, or lack of oil. So, change your oil and filter regularly and DO NOT use Pennzoil or Quaker State. — Sam Solace Century Performance Center http://www.centuryperformance.com Race Parts, Tech, Chat Room for "Racers", Newsgroup, LOW PRICES, the Internet’s FIRST "Online Speed Shop" … Built by racers, For racers! (888) 682-5009 Toll-Free order line (702) 770-1057 Tech and Help Line
I use to own a 79 full size blazer(loved it!!) one of the problems I had is the lobes on the cam rounded off. I was told that chevy had a few years of these "soft cams". Could anyone tell me what all those years were???? I am now looking at a 82 weebcraft with a chevy enigine, and don’t want to run into the same problem. If you could e-mail me with the comments, thanks……. TODD W. DAVIS
Response:
My 81 Blazer did this. When I took it in to the Chevy dealer they fixed it for free … no questions asked. However, when I got it back the AC no longer cooled and they wanted >$200 to fix a leaky hose. I complained + wrote letters for many months, but after re-filling with Freon a few times it just started working again. Mark
I use to own a 79 full size blazer(loved it!!) one of the problems I had is the lobes on the cam rounded off. I was told that chevy had a few years of these "soft cams". Could anyone tell me what all those years were???? I am now looking at a 82 weebcraft with a chevy enigine, and don’t want to run into the same problem. If you could e-mail me with the comments, thanks……. TODD W. DAVIS
Response:
Chevy had serious probloms with there camshafts in the late 70’s. The hard coat was breaking down and causing premature cam failure. It was more common in the heavy doty applications. Sam is partially correct as to the failure according to Chevy. The cams were already faulty and the spring pressure was to great for the cam to withstand. Chevy sent out service bulletins describing the problem to owners of certain vehicles and giving them a time limit to make necessary repairs. If you missed the boat, so sorry. Warrenty is an evil corporate thing. If you don’t call them on it ,you lose! I work in a GMC truck dealership an dthe past mechanics had welded up a metel monster with several of the failed cams. It is a constant reminder o fbogus parts and representation. Mark S. — "My Opinions" "Constructive Opinions Boast Character, Negetive Promotes Disillusions"
