When my road lights are off my brake light work and when i switch on my road lights the brake light dont work   (when i press the brake pedal) Cheers Ash — http://www.AutoForumz.com/  This article was posted by author’s request Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards Topic URL: http://www.AutoForumz.com/GM-Help-1998-Savana-Day-Van-ftopict75256.html Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req’d).  Report abuse: http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=335425

Response:

>When my road lights are off my brake light work and when i switch on >my road lights the brake light dont work   (when i press the brake >pedal) >Cheers >Ash

Have you checked that your brake lights are properly grounded? See if someone has added  trailer hitch wiring incorrectly (that is often a source new and interesting lighting issues). Also check to see if you’re getting a good voltage & ground at the terminals (best starting point). Let us know what you find.

Response:

 >  > >When my road lights are off my brake light work and when i  > switch on  > >my road lights the brake light dont work   (when i press the  > brake  > >pedal)  > >Cheers  > >Ash  >  > Have you checked that your brake lights are properly grounded?  >  > See if someone has added  trailer hitch wiring incorrectly  > (that is  > often a source new and interesting lighting issues).  >  > Also check to see if you’re getting a good voltage & ground at  > the  > terminals (best starting point).  >  > Let us know what you find. Problem solved, the earth in the bulb holder was burnt out, now are these available from GMC   By the way i live in the UK — http://www.AutoForumz.com/  This article was posted by author’s request Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards Topic URL: http://www.AutoForumz.com/GM-Help-1998-Savana-Day-Van-ftopict75256.html Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req’d).  Report abuse: http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=339821

Response:

><snip> >Problem solved, the earth in the bulb holder was burnt out, now are >these available from GMC   >By the way i live in the UK

Great to hear.    Sorry to hear that you’ve got to pay UK fuel prices to keep that baby running. I used to wince filling my POS S40 over there.  I’d hate to be paying your fuel bills.

Response:

 >  > >&lt;snip&gt;  > >  > >Problem solved, the earth in the bulb holder was burnt out,  > now are  > >these available from GMC    > >By the way i live in the UK  > >  >  > Great to hear.    >  >  Sorry to hear that you’ve got to pay UK fuel prices to keep  > that baby  > running.  > I used to wince filling my POS S40 over there.  I’d hate to be  > paying  > your fuel bills. Yes a full tank is $120 lol   — http://www.AutoForumz.com/  This article was posted by author’s request Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards Topic URL: http://www.AutoForumz.com/GM-Help-1998-Savana-Day-Van-ftopict75256.html Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req’d).  Report abuse: http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=340389

Response:

><snip> >  Sorry to hear that you’ve got to pay UK fuel prices to keep > that baby > running. > I used to wince filling my POS S40 over there.  I’d hate to be > paying > your fuel bills. >Yes a full tank is $120 lol  

I’d hate to think what it’ll cost to fill when Iran and Venezuela get "liberated".   With luck though the next gov’t will lower fuel taxes.   It’s nice seeing & hearing of full size vehicles over in the UK.

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> I’ve put 82,000 trouble-free miles on mine since I bought it new in ‘99. > Although a bit of a grandma car in non-GS form for someone 26 years old, I’d > buy another one when this one dies. However, that’s a moot point (unless I > buy a used one) since its replacement – the LaCrosse – arrives in a few > months. I’ll miss the availability of the SC 3800, but I’ll reserve final > judgement until I drove a LaCross CXL with the new 3.6L VVT V-6.

Ooops… I meant CXS, not CXL. The CX and CXL have the 3800 Series III while the CXS has the 3.6L VVT V-6. Roger

Response:

> It’s my understanding that the Impala and Bonneville share a platform. > The Grand Prix and Regal share a platform and the Century and Grand Am > share a platform.  This would put the LeSabre and Impala on the same > platform, right?  The Impala IS bigger than the Regal, no question…

Impala, Grand Prix, Century, Regal, Cutlass, Monte Carlo, Intrigue and what used to be the Lumina are all W-Body. Firebird, Camaro are F-Body. Cavalier and Sunfire are J-Body. Malibu Classic, Grand Am, Alero, Achieva, later model Cutlass, Skylark are N-Body. Corvette (and maybe XLR) are Y-Body. Park Avenue is C-Body. Aurora is G-Body. H-Bodies are the LeSabre and Bonneville, Eighty Eight, LSS, Regency Seville and Deville are K-Bodies. Montana, Silhouette and Venture are U-Body. 2WD S-10/Blazer and all those are S-Body. 4WD/AWD of the above are T-Body. C-2WD Sierra/Yukon..etc K-4WD/AWD of the above. L-2WD Astro, Safari M-AWD of the above G-Express, Savana A-2WD Aztek B-AWD Aztek E-Eldorado Those go back to 98..some go before that. Got it all from Mitchell On-Demand.

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I agree. One of best all around cars made. Without question best value in USA. Nit picking is a devious profession….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> —– Original Message —– > Newsgroups: alt.autos.pontiac,alt.autos.gm > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:34 AM > Went to Seattle / Vancouver BC this past weekend. > National Car Rental Reservation : Large Car. > Drove it Thursday to Monday. 677 Miles driven. > Impala was the first choice. I asked about upgrading to Park Avenue, it > was $99 a day.  The Large car was $55 a day, but I was getting it for > $29 a day.  I got a good travel agent. > Tell the counter guy I’ll take the Impala if you got one – Berry Red or > White please. > Fills out the paper work, then we go downstairs to the pick up area at > SeaTac Airport. > HF – Got a reservation for a Large car, hopefully Impala. > Clerk – Or first available. > HF  ( Pointing to the stalls )- I see two Impala’s over there. > Clerk – Those are reserved. > HF – Well…… maybe one is RESERVED for ME ! > Clerk – We got a Rendezvous ready now. > HF – I don’t want a Rendezvous, we want a  " car " with a trunk. > Clerk – You’ll have to wait then. > So we wait a few minutes, Looking over at the Impala I notice its the > base model with the 3400 V6. > MMmmm some nice Devilles in the next row – oh wait those are $99 a day. > After about 6 minutes we see amber DRL parking lights approach the > booth, car dripping wet, 04 Buick Regal LS – hey that has a 3800 V6 ! I > hope we get that. > Clerk – We got a Regal ready. > HF – I’ll take it, its faster than the Impala’s you got sitting over > there. > Silver / Graphite Interior, Power everything, Auto Climate Control, AM- > FM -CD. Leather seats, no lumbar adjust thank god. > Ride & handling was good,  Although hard to tell on Interstate 5 around > Seattle area – due to poor quality pavement that made the tires roar > like a lion. I would hate to live there & have to drive that road > everyday. > The original Goodyear Eagle LS tires on my ‘99 Regal LS roared on course > pavement. The next set of Firestone FT-70c’s were much quieter, a bit > smoother, had much better wet weather traction, but at the sacrifice of some > handling. Currently, my third set of tires are Goodyear Eagle GA’s. I’m back > to my original complaints. They are even noisier and impossible to balance, > but they were given to me. I’m trying to wear them out so I can buy > something I like better. > Didn’t bother with checking the gas mileage for this car. > Over 82,000 miles since new, I’ve averaged a bit over 22 MPG. I average > about 60% city, 40% highway, often have a heavy foot, and I idle a lot. I’ve > gotten as high as 28 on a highway trip and as low as 14 during city driving > exclusively. > Drove in both wet & dry conditions. V6 had 205 Horsepower / 230 Torque > Acceleration was good. Better than the 1991  3800. Loads of legroom up > front. Headroom was fine, but a higher seat setting and your head would > brush the door frame opening but cleared the headliner still. > The radio sound was decent – I didn’t bring any CD’s. I programmed the > Volume speed control to OFF. > The Concert Sound II sound system is sufficient for most people, but a 10" > subwoofer and amp cured my desire for a tad more bass. > Visibility  - Front & Rear was good. > Exterior Power Mirrors – Big, Good rearward vision. Interior mirror had > reading lights on the bottom which were very bright. > Good trunk space, flat floor & deep. Fold down rear seat. Non intrusive > trunk lid hinges. > Wet Arm Wipers ( Washer Jets on the wiper arm )  really flooded the > winshield good. > A green " Cruise " light, lights up on the dashboard when the desired > speed is set. > Intrusive footwell for drivers left foot at the far left side of > floorboard. Toes also hit  lower dash trim. > I guess I’ve never been offended by the footwell nor have my toes ever hit > the lower dash trim. > The Auto Climate Control, while it worked just fine, setting it while in > motion was risky. You have to push a paddle button for the Blower > Setting, the Temperature setting and the Air Flow setting ( where the > air comes out from ). etc. 10 different buttons in all. > Plus while pushing the buttons you have to watch the digital  settings / > bar graph readings to see that you got the settings you want. > After you’ve lived with the car for a while, you can operate the climate > control blindfolded. 99% of the time, I prefer to leave mine on the AUTO > setting and let it do its thing. One exception would be that in some mild > temperature conditions, it prefers to direct cold air to the windshield and > warm air to the floor. It results in what feels like an uncomfortable cold > draft from the front of the car. I usually override it and direct the > airflow to the floor temporarily. > Here we go with the Power Driver Seat again – Unfortunately it was a > back killer for me. It would of been a super comfortable seat if only > the side bolsters on the backrest were 2 to 3 inches further out. There > were pressing to hard against my sides. The seat cushion was great, firm > support. The tennis racquet style headrests— well lets use them as > tennis racquet and not headrests, they were useless. > I’ve yet to find a vehicle that suits my body in terms of long trip comfort. > The closest I ever came was the seats in my ‘95 Probe. > DRL’s & Automatic Headlights — GRrrrrr. At night – you had to turn the > headlight switch dimmer down to " MIN " every time you got out of the > car. This way, when you hit the Lock button on the Remote Keyless Fob > the headlights and tailights would go out immediately. If you left the > switch set near or on " MAX " the exterior lights would stay on for a > loooong time. When you would start up again at night you would have to > then turn the headlight switch dimmer up to MAX again so the gauge > cluster could be seen again.. > I’m a bit confused by the wording of this comment. The MIN and MAX settings > on my headlight knob exclusively control the brightness of the instrument > panel lights. It has nothing to do with the delay of interior lighting > unless it’s set to the "dome lamp on" detent just past the "MAX" setting. In > that case, the interior lights will stay on until the battery saver feature > cuts power to them (about 20 minutes). Otherwise, they fade out in about 40 > seconds or shut off immediately when you press the LOCK button on the > keyfob. Perhaps this particular example was defective? > Wiper delay — When turned to the delay cycle position the wipers would > make the jerky single sweep at a unusual high rate of speed. > With the floorshift & center console there is no room to put anything. > The storage armrest was good, but there was no room to set a map or road > atlas anywhere. The door panel pockets were too small. One AAA book > filled it. It was too narrow for sun glasses. The flip out cup holder in > the console was ready to flip your cup out on turns  & hard stops. The > bottom of the front seats had plastic trim right down to the carpet > making it difficult to tuck things down next to the seats. > There is no  P R N D L1 L2 indicator on the console trim plate for the > floor shift. > Its a digital read out on the dash. > Interesting. Very interesting. Mine has shift indicators in the instrument > cluster and down by the shift lever itself. So do two ‘04 Regals on a local > Buick dealer’s lot here. > The console armrest for leaning on & holding the wheel with the right > hand was way too low and too far back. The storage area under the flip > up ashtray door, although it was deep – you had to reach way in to > retrieve anything behind the ashtray. In doing so it looked like you > were elbow deep in a barracuda’s mouth. And forget about visually seeing > anything  you had in there. > I agree that the armrest is too low and too far back – particularly the comment > about the storage area behind the ashtray! Many ‘97-up Regals were actually > equipped with a lamp assembly inside the ashtry storage compartment, > however, it’s not connected to anything. Some of those Regals also had a > microswitch activated by the ashtray console lid making the lamp functional. > Mine has the lamp, but not the switch. Maybe I’ll add it next time I have to > pull the console for some reason. > The Climate Control unit is to low in dashboard. > No Climate Control buttons on the steering wheel hub – only radio > controls. > Personally, I’ve never desired duplicate climate controls on the steering > wheel for anything more than show or entertainment purposes. The AUTO > setting seems to do just what it’s designed to do in my opinion. I akin this > to having a RF remote for the thermostat in your home, walking around > changing it everytime you feel a degree or two too warm or cool. ) > Fog Lights – Who lit those candles? Not to bright. > Yup. Purely for cosmetic purposes. I even resorted to installing lower > wattage bulbs in my fog lamps after the original wattage bulbs kept > resulting in cracked plastic fog light housings. > Elbow OFF Door Sills – Impossible to rest your left arm on top of the > door sill with the window up. > Eh, poor driving posture anyway. You should have both hands firmly on the > wheel at all times. <grin> > Visors

… read more »

Response:

It’s my understanding that the Impala and Bonneville share a platform. The Grand Prix and Regal share a platform and the Century and Grand Am share a platform.  This would put the LeSabre and Impala on the same platform, right?  The Impala IS bigger than the Regal, no question… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nope, the Park Ave, Bonneville, and LeSabre all share the same platform. >Same platform as the Olds 88,98 of a couple years back.  Are ya sure the >Impala doesn’t have the same platform as all of these cars?  I checked out >the Impala’s dimensions a few months ago (to replace my wife’s ‘97 Olds >88), and the dimensions of the Impala and the Olds 88/Park Ave/Bonneville >are essentially the same, within an inch or so. >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> Nope, the Park Ave, Bonneville, and LeSabre all share the same platform. > Same platform as the Olds 88,98 of a couple years back.  Are ya sure the > Impala doesn’t have the same platform as all of these cars?  I checked out > the Impala’s dimensions a few months ago (to replace my wife’s ‘97 Olds > 88), and the dimensions of the Impala and the Olds 88/Park Ave/Bonneville > are essentially the same, within an inch or so.

Positive, the Impala is W-Body. I know for sure that the LeSabre and Bonne are on the H-Body. I can find out what platforms go with what cars but it may take a little bit of time.

Response:

> Nope, the Park Ave, Bonneville, and LeSabre all share the same platform.

Same platform as the Olds 88,98 of a couple years back.  Are ya sure the Impala doesn’t have the same platform as all of these cars?  I checked out the Impala’s dimensions a few months ago (to replace my wife’s ‘97 Olds 88), and the dimensions of the Impala and the Olds 88/Park Ave/Bonneville are essentially the same, within an inch or so. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.autos.pontiac,alt.autos.gm Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:34 AM > Went to Seattle / Vancouver BC this past weekend. > National Car Rental Reservation : Large Car. > Drove it Thursday to Monday. 677 Miles driven. > Impala was the first choice. I asked about upgrading to Park Avenue, it > was $99 a day.  The Large car was $55 a day, but I was getting it for > $29 a day.  I got a good travel agent. > Tell the counter guy I’ll take the Impala if you got one – Berry Red or > White please. > Fills out the paper work, then we go downstairs to the pick up area at > SeaTac Airport. > HF – Got a reservation for a Large car, hopefully Impala. > Clerk – Or first available. > HF  ( Pointing to the stalls )- I see two Impala’s over there. > Clerk – Those are reserved. > HF – Well…… maybe one is RESERVED for ME ! > Clerk – We got a Rendezvous ready now. > HF – I don’t want a Rendezvous, we want a  " car " with a trunk. > Clerk – You’ll have to wait then. > So we wait a few minutes, Looking over at the Impala I notice its the > base model with the 3400 V6. > MMmmm some nice Devilles in the next row – oh wait those are $99 a day. > After about 6 minutes we see amber DRL parking lights approach the > booth, car dripping wet, 04 Buick Regal LS – hey that has a 3800 V6 ! I > hope we get that. > Clerk – We got a Regal ready. > HF – I’ll take it, its faster than the Impala’s you got sitting over > there. > Silver / Graphite Interior, Power everything, Auto Climate Control, AM- > FM -CD. Leather seats, no lumbar adjust thank god. > Ride & handling was good,  Although hard to tell on Interstate 5 around > Seattle area – due to poor quality pavement that made the tires roar > like a lion. I would hate to live there & have to drive that road > everyday. The original Goodyear Eagle LS tires on my ‘99 Regal LS roared on course pavement. The next set of Firestone FT-70c’s were much quieter, a bit smoother, had much better wet weather traction, but at the sacrifice of some handling. Currently, my third set of tires are Goodyear Eagle GA’s. I’m back to my original complaints. They are even noisier and impossible to balance, but they were given to me. I’m trying to wear them out so I can buy something I like better. > Didn’t bother with checking the gas mileage for this car. Over 82,000 miles since new, I’ve averaged a bit over 22 MPG. I average about 60% city, 40% highway, often have a heavy foot, and I idle a lot. I’ve gotten as high as 28 on a highway trip and as low as 14 during city driving exclusively. > Drove in both wet & dry conditions. V6 had 205 Horsepower / 230 Torque > Acceleration was good. Better than the 1991  3800. Loads of legroom up > front. Headroom was fine, but a higher seat setting and your head would > brush the door frame opening but cleared the headliner still. > The radio sound was decent – I didn’t bring any CD’s. I programmed the > Volume speed control to OFF. The Concert Sound II sound system is sufficient for most people, but a 10" subwoofer and amp cured my desire for a tad more bass. > Visibility  - Front & Rear was good. > Exterior Power Mirrors – Big, Good rearward vision. Interior mirror had > reading lights on the bottom which were very bright. > Good trunk space, flat floor & deep. Fold down rear seat. Non intrusive > trunk lid hinges. > Wet Arm Wipers ( Washer Jets on the wiper arm )  really flooded the > winshield good. > A green " Cruise " light, lights up on the dashboard when the desired > speed is set. > Intrusive footwell for drivers left foot at the far left side of > floorboard. Toes also hit  lower dash trim. I guess I’ve never been offended by the footwell nor have my toes ever hit the lower dash trim. > The Auto Climate Control, while it worked just fine, setting it while in > motion was risky. You have to push a paddle button for the Blower > Setting, the Temperature setting and the Air Flow setting ( where the > air comes out from ). etc. 10 different buttons in all. > Plus while pushing the buttons you have to watch the digital  settings / > bar graph readings to see that you got the settings you want. After you’ve lived with the car for a while, you can operate the climate control blindfolded. 99% of the time, I prefer to leave mine on the AUTO setting and let it do its thing. One exception would be that in some mild temperature conditions, it prefers to direct cold air to the windshield and warm air to the floor. It results in what feels like an uncomfortable cold draft from the front of the car. I usually override it and direct the airflow to the floor temporarily. > Here we go with the Power Driver Seat again – Unfortunately it was a > back killer for me. It would of been a super comfortable seat if only > the side bolsters on the backrest were 2 to 3 inches further out. There > were pressing to hard against my sides. The seat cushion was great, firm > support. The tennis racquet style headrests— well lets use them as > tennis racquet and not headrests, they were useless. I’ve yet to find a vehicle that suits my body in terms of long trip comfort. The closest I ever came was the seats in my ‘95 Probe. > DRL’s & Automatic Headlights — GRrrrrr. At night – you had to turn the > headlight switch dimmer down to " MIN " every time you got out of the > car. This way, when you hit the Lock button on the Remote Keyless Fob > the headlights and tailights would go out immediately. If you left the > switch set near or on " MAX " the exterior lights would stay on for a > loooong time. When you would start up again at night you would have to > then turn the headlight switch dimmer up to MAX again so the gauge > cluster could be seen again.. I’m a bit confused by the wording of this comment. The MIN and MAX settings on my headlight knob exclusively control the brightness of the instrument panel lights. It has nothing to do with the delay of interior lighting unless it’s set to the "dome lamp on" detent just past the "MAX" setting. In that case, the interior lights will stay on until the battery saver feature cuts power to them (about 20 minutes). Otherwise, they fade out in about 40 seconds or shut off immediately when you press the LOCK button on the keyfob. Perhaps this particular example was defective? > Wiper delay — When turned to the delay cycle position the wipers would > make the jerky single sweep at a unusual high rate of speed. > With the floorshift & center console there is no room to put anything. > The storage armrest was good, but there was no room to set a map or road > atlas anywhere. The door panel pockets were too small. One AAA book > filled it. It was too narrow for sun glasses. The flip out cup holder in > the console was ready to flip your cup out on turns  & hard stops. The > bottom of the front seats had plastic trim right down to the carpet > making it difficult to tuck things down next to the seats. > There is no  P R N D L1 L2 indicator on the console trim plate for the > floor shift. > Its a digital read out on the dash. Interesting. Very interesting. Mine has shift indicators in the instrument cluster and down by the shift lever itself. So do two ‘04 Regals on a local Buick dealer’s lot here. > The console armrest for leaning on & holding the wheel with the right > hand was way too low and too far back. The storage area under the flip > up ashtray door, although it was deep – you had to reach way in to > retrieve anything behind the ashtray. In doing so it looked like you > were elbow deep in a barracuda’s mouth. And forget about visually seeing > anything  you had in there. I agree that the armrest is too low and too far back – particularly the about the storage area behind the ashtray! Many ‘97-up Regals were actually equipped with a lamp assembly inside the ashtry storage compartment, however, it’s not connected to anything. Some of those Regals also had a microswitch activated by the ashtray console lid making the lamp functional. Mine has the lamp, but not the switch. Maybe I’ll add it next time I have to pull the console for some reason. > The Climate Control unit is to low in dashboard. > No Climate Control buttons on the steering wheel hub – only radio > controls. Personally, I’ve never desired duplicate climate controls on the steering wheel for anything more than show or entertainment purposes. The AUTO setting seems to do just what it’s designed to do in my opinion. I akin this to having a RF remote for the thermostat in your home, walking around changing it everytime you feel a degree or two too warm or cool. ) > Fog Lights – Who lit those candles? Not to bright. Yup. Purely for cosmetic purposes. I even resorted to installing lower wattage bulbs in my fog lamps after the original wattage bulbs kept resulting in cracked plastic fog light housings. > Elbow OFF Door Sills – Impossible to rest your left arm on top of the > door sill with the window up. Eh, poor driving posture anyway. You should have both hands firmly on the wheel at all times. <grin> > Visors are to small. I wear sunshades. > Kilometer numbers on speedometer very small to read. Not an issue for US Regal’s drivin in the US. The MPH markings are plenty large. > While in Vancouver Canada I didn’t see any Canadian Tire Stores or Ian, > our GM Mechanic. > 04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List. I’ve put 82,000 trouble-free miles on mine since I bought it new in ‘99. Although a bit of a grandma car in non-GS form for someone 26 years old, I’d buy another one when this one dies. However, that’s a moot point (unless I buy a used one) since its replacement – the LaCrosse – arrives in a few

… read more »

Response:

PDX Regals shares a basic design with the Impala, Monte C, GP and Century according to Consumers Guide. Forgot to mention the Regal had no ABS or Traction Control ( $600 option ), and the car braked & handled just fine in the rain. Harryface       1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE  3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~291,400 miles_~_~_           ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

Response:

>> 04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List. >Arn’t Regals W-bodies like Impala’s?

Yep. > The Impala and Park Ave. share a platform.

Nope, the Park Ave, Bonneville, and LeSabre all share the same platform. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My mom has a Regal LS, > same car Harry got as a rental only hers is a 2000 and doesn’t have > leather, the Impala was A LOT bigger.  More headroom, larger trunk. > My parents and I shared one when we went to Oregon, I was there for a > weekend, they were moving on to a cruise of Alaska.  My sister was > also there for the weekend.  You can imagine the luggage we had to fit > in that car, EVERYTHING fit in the trunk. > Road noise was tremendous, we were in the Portland area, those roads > SUCK. you can barely hold a conversation in your vehicle while driving > on them.  We were on 205 and 5…

Response:

>> 04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List. >Arn’t Regals W-bodies like Impala’s?

The Impala and Park Ave. share a platform.  My mom has a Regal LS, same car Harry got as a rental only hers is a 2000 and doesn’t have leather, the Impala was A LOT bigger.  More headroom, larger trunk. My parents and I shared one when we went to Oregon, I was there for a weekend, they were moving on to a cruise of Alaska.  My sister was also there for the weekend.  You can imagine the luggage we had to fit in that car, EVERYTHING fit in the trunk. Road noise was tremendous, we were in the Portland area, those roads SUCK. you can barely hold a conversation in your vehicle while driving on them.  We were on 205 and 5…

Response:

> 04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List.

Arn’t Regals W-bodies like Impala’s?

Response:

>Went to Seattle / Vancouver BC this past weekend. ><snip> >After about 6 minutes we see amber DRL parking lights approach the >booth, car dripping wet, 04 Buick Regal LS – hey that has a 3800 V6 ! I >hope we get that. >Clerk – We got a Regal ready.

Sounding good so far… >Didn’t bother with checking the gas mileage for this car.

3.8’s although not as good as the 3.4’s are still really good, >DRL’s & Automatic Headlights — GRrrrrr. At night – you had to turn the >headlight switch dimmer down to " MIN " every time you got out of the >car. This way, when you hit the Lock button on the Remote Keyless Fob >the headlights and tailights would go out immediately. If you left the >switch set near or on " MAX " the exterior lights would stay on for a >loooong time. When you would start up again at night you would have to >then turn the headlight switch dimmer up to MAX again so the gauge >cluster could be seen again..

That’s disappointing.  (Same as my Windstar)  My Olds has separate twi-light delay & dashlight dimmer knobs (sounds like the bean counters have been at it again). >Wiper delay — When turned to the delay cycle position the wipers would >make the jerky single sweep at a unusual high rate of speed.

wonder how that will work as the wiper hardens or gets covered in dirt/snow… >With the floorshift & center console there is no room to put anything. >The storage armrest was good, but there was no room to set a map or road >atlas anywhere. The door panel pockets were too small. One AAA book >filled it. It was too narrow for sun glasses. The flip out cup holder in >the console was ready to flip your cup out on turns  & hard stops. The >bottom of the front seats had plastic trim right down to the carpet >making it difficult to tuck things down next to the seats.

Hmm sounds like the "sporty" side bolsters are indicative of the general comfort level then?  You think that on this continent they’d start putting in useful cup holders.  If we can’t get England’s "B" roads or Germany’s Autobahn’s for God’s sake give us a nice comfortable living room to drive ! >There is no  P R N D L1 L2 indicator on the console trim plate for the >floor shift. >Its a digital read out on the dash.

Personally I think we’re ready to go back to push button auto’s >The console armrest for leaning on & holding the wheel with the right >hand was way too low and too far back. The storage area under the flip >up ashtray door, although it was deep – you had to reach way in to >retrieve anything behind the ashtray. In doing so it looked like you >were elbow deep in a barracuda’s mouth. And forget about visually seeing >anything  you had in there.

you want to use an armrest to "rest your arm"??  hmm  perhaps the focus groups didn’t address that issue when they were suggesting low profile "Z" rated tires for luxury cars……. >The Climate Control unit is to low in dashboard. >No Climate Control buttons on the steering wheel hub – only radio >controls.

Now that’s just dumb.  Either put it up where you can see it or put basic controls on the steering wheel. >Fog Lights – Who lit those candles? Not to bright.

Factory Fog Lights tend to be more for image than for function. >Elbow OFF Door Sills – Impossible to rest your left arm on top of the >door sill with the window up.

See my earlier "sporty’ comment.  The notion in the auto industry is that everyone want’s to drive a Lotus all the time.  Have these people forgotten that most of us use our vehicles within the parameters of the law "most" of the time.   >Visors are to small.

This is a real shame.  My Olds has the perfected 4 piece visor’s that cover both side & front with additional plastic slide outs.   A truly brilliant design. >Kilometer numbers on speedometer very small to read.

Digital Dash with button switch worked well on my old Lincoln, I take it that they went for a traditional "Look" dash? >While in Vancouver Canada I didn’t see any Canadian Tire Stores or Ian, >our GM Mechanic.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing  ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List. >Harryface       >1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE > 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey >_~_~_~291,400 miles_~_~_           >~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ >89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible >78 Holiday 88 coupe >68 LeSabre convertible >73 Impala sedan

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Went to Seattle / Vancouver BC this past weekend. National Car Rental Reservation : Large Car. Drove it Thursday to Monday. 677 Miles driven. Impala was the first choice. I asked about upgrading to Park Avenue, it was $99 a day.  The Large car was $55 a day, but I was getting it for $29 a day.  I got a good travel agent. Tell the counter guy I’ll take the Impala if you got one – Berry Red or White please. Fills out the paper work, then we go downstairs to the pick up area at SeaTac Airport. HF – Got a reservation for a Large car, hopefully Impala. Clerk – Or first available. HF  ( Pointing to the stalls )- I see two Impala’s over there. Clerk – Those are reserved. HF – Well…… maybe one is RESERVED for ME ! Clerk – We got a Rendezvous ready now. HF – I don’t want a Rendezvous, we want a  " car " with a trunk. Clerk – You’ll have to wait then. So we wait a few minutes, Looking over at the Impala I notice its the base model with the 3400 V6. MMmmm some nice Devilles in the next row – oh wait those are $99 a day. After about 6 minutes we see amber DRL parking lights approach the booth, car dripping wet, 04 Buick Regal LS – hey that has a 3800 V6 ! I hope we get that. Clerk – We got a Regal ready. HF – I’ll take it, its faster than the Impala’s you got sitting over there. Silver / Graphite Interior, Power everything, Auto Climate Control, AM- FM -CD. Leather seats, no lumbar adjust thank god. Ride & handling was good,  Although hard to tell on Interstate 5 around Seattle area – due to poor quality pavement that made the tires roar like a lion. I would hate to live there & have to drive that road everyday. Didn’t bother with checking the gas mileage for this car. Drove in both wet & dry conditions. V6 had 205 Horsepower / 230 Torque Acceleration was good. Better than the 1991  3800. Loads of legroom up front. Headroom was fine, but a higher seat setting and your head would brush the door frame opening but cleared the headliner still. The radio sound was decent – I didn’t bring any CD’s. I programmed the Volume speed control to OFF. Visibility  - Front & Rear was good. Exterior Power Mirrors – Big, Good rearward vision. Interior mirror had reading lights on the bottom which were very bright. Good trunk space, flat floor & deep. Fold down rear seat. Non intrusive trunk lid hinges. Wet Arm Wipers ( Washer Jets on the wiper arm )  really flooded the winshield good. A green " Cruise " light, lights up on the dashboard when the desired speed is set. Intrusive footwell for drivers left foot at the far left side of floorboard. Toes also hit  lower dash trim. The Auto Climate Control, while it worked just fine, setting it while in motion was risky. You have to push a paddle button for the Blower Setting, the Temperature setting and the Air Flow setting ( where the air comes out from ). etc. 10 different buttons in all. Plus while pushing the buttons you have to watch the digital  settings / bar graph readings to see that you got the settings you want. Here we go with the Power Driver Seat again – Unfortunately it was a back killer for me. It would of been a super comfortable seat if only the side bolsters on the backrest were 2 to 3 inches further out. There were pressing to hard against my sides. The seat cushion was great, firm support. The tennis racquet style headrests— well lets use them as tennis racquet and not headrests, they were useless.   DRL’s & Automatic Headlights — GRrrrrr. At night – you had to turn the headlight switch dimmer down to " MIN " every time you got out of the car. This way, when you hit the Lock button on the Remote Keyless Fob the headlights and tailights would go out immediately. If you left the switch set near or on " MAX " the exterior lights would stay on for a loooong time. When you would start up again at night you would have to then turn the headlight switch dimmer up to MAX again so the gauge cluster could be seen again.. Wiper delay — When turned to the delay cycle position the wipers would make the jerky single sweep at a unusual high rate of speed. With the floorshift & center console there is no room to put anything. The storage armrest was good, but there was no room to set a map or road atlas anywhere. The door panel pockets were too small. One AAA book filled it. It was too narrow for sun glasses. The flip out cup holder in the console was ready to flip your cup out on turns  & hard stops. The bottom of the front seats had plastic trim right down to the carpet making it difficult to tuck things down next to the seats. There is no  P R N D L1 L2 indicator on the console trim plate for the floor shift. Its a digital read out on the dash. The console armrest for leaning on & holding the wheel with the right hand was way too low and too far back. The storage area under the flip up ashtray door, although it was deep – you had to reach way in to retrieve anything behind the ashtray. In doing so it looked like you were elbow deep in a barracuda’s mouth. And forget about visually seeing anything  you had in there. The Climate Control unit is to low in dashboard. No Climate Control buttons on the steering wheel hub – only radio controls. Fog Lights – Who lit those candles? Not to bright. Elbow OFF Door Sills – Impossible to rest your left arm on top of the door sill with the window up. Visors are to small. Kilometer numbers on speedometer very small to read. While in Vancouver Canada I didn’t see any Canadian Tire Stores or Ian, our GM Mechanic. 04 Buick Regal LS – another car I can cross off my To Buy List. Harryface       1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE  3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~291,400 miles_~_~_           ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan

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"Ann Meffert"  wrote > How do you know what transmission you have? > My truck is a 1500 w/4wheel drive, 5.3L, automatic, 3.73 gear ratio.

It’s in the option code sheet.  I doubt that you have the 4L80/85E series in that truck.  I remember the one code, MT1, but I can’t remember what the other code was. Ian

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1500 is a light truck and has the 4l60. Not effected by this "recall"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How do you know what transmission you have? > My truck is a 1500 w/4wheel drive, 5.3L, automatic, 3.73 gear ratio. > "Ann Meffert" wrote > My GMC dealer said this didn’t apply to my 2004 GMC 1500 SLT Sierra. > Hope that’s true. He said it was for the 2500 series. Anybody > following > this problem? > It’s for the vehicles with 4L80/85E transmissions. > Ian

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How do you know what transmission you have? My truck is a 1500 w/4wheel drive, 5.3L, automatic, 3.73 gear ratio.

"Ann Meffert" wrote > My GMC dealer said this didn’t apply to my 2004 GMC 1500 SLT Sierra. > Hope that’s true. He said it was for the 2500 series. Anybody following > this problem?

It’s for the vehicles with 4L80/85E transmissions. Ian

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"Ann Meffert" wrote > My GMC dealer said this didn’t apply to my 2004 GMC 1500 SLT Sierra. > Hope that’s true. He said it was for the 2500 series. Anybody following > this problem?

It’s for the vehicles with 4L80/85E transmissions. Ian

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My GMC dealer said this didn’t apply to my 2004 GMC 1500 SLT Sierra. Hope that’s true. He said it was for the 2500 series. Anybody following this problem? Sunday, March 14, 2004 GM halts sales of some ‘04 models Faulty pump produces transmission failure in pickups, SUVs, vans By Ed Garsten / The Detroit News DETROIT – A problem that could cause transmissions to fail in some 2004 full-size pickup trucks, SUVs and vans led General Motors Corp. to temporarily stop shipping the vehicles from assembly plants on Friday. The company also asked dealers not to sell or deliver the trucks to customers. The transmissions, produced at GM’s Willow Run transmission plant, could fail because of a faulty pump that may prevent lubrication from reaching overdrive gearset bearings, according to GM spokeswoman Debbie Frakes. The problem does not pose a safety issue, she said. About 25,000 vehicles may be affected, said Frakes. Of those, 8,000 have been delivered to customers and another 1,700 are in transit between assembly plants and dealers. The company believes only about 2,000 vehicles actually have the problem, said Frakes. The problem was corrected at the transmission plant and the six assembly plants that build the Chevrolet Express and Silverado, GMC Suburban, Sierra, Savana and Yukon XL and W4 medium duty truck, resumed production late Friday. However, every truck coming off assembly lines and in plant holding lots is being inspected before they are released for delivery to dealerships and customers. Dealers must also inspect vehicles they have in stock. GM is urging owners to have their vehicles inspected at a dealership service center at no cost. Until they do, owners are being told to use third gear rather than overdrive.

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I was thinking of trying this Auto-RX treatment http://www.auto-rx.com/index.html   I am the original owner of this GMC Van. This Cargo Van sees mostly highway miles. Very little City miles. The Van is like new. I use it for delivering furniture, and occasionally  pulling a trailer. I have religiously changed the oil. I have never changed the transmission fluid, and mechanics tell me not to do it, because that would shock it ( if its working, don’t fix it.) At present, my rear main seal leaks, if I don’t put in an oil additive. The big question is, what should I do ?     1..  keep putting the additive in to stop the leak     2.. Change the rear seal, and maybe the transmission seal while I’m at it     3.. sell the Van & buy a new one, which would now cost about $27,000.00   I really like the Van, and I really have no problems, other than the oil leak, and I love having no monthly payments.   How long can this fantasy last ?

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Barry S wrote : I have religiously changed the oil. I have never changed the transmission oil…. You need to change religions or sit in a pew further up so you can hear whats being said. You missed the part when the preacher said,  " Change the transmission oil every 50,000 miles ". Harryface       1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE, 3800 V6

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change the rear seal, but not the transmission seal, since that would require a flush and with that many miles on it, would probably screw up the tranny.   I am the original owner of this GMC Van. This Cargo Van sees mostly highway miles. Very little City miles. The Van is like new. I use it for delivering furniture, and occasionally  pulling a trailer. I have religiously changed the oil. I have never changed the transmission fluid, and mechanics tell me not to do it, because that would shock it ( if its working, don’t fix it.) At present, my rear main seal leaks, if I don’t put in an oil additive. The big question is, what should I do ?     1..  keep putting the additive in to stop the leak     2.. Change the rear seal, and maybe the transmission seal while I’m at it     3.. sell the Van & buy a new one, which would now cost about $27,000.00   I really like the Van, and I really have no problems, other than the oil leak, and I love having no monthly payments.   How long can this fantasy last ?

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>I am the original owner of this GMC Van. This Cargo Van sees mostly highway >miles. Very little City miles. The Van is like new. I use it for delivering >furniture, and occasionally  pulling a trailer. I have religiously changed >the oil. I have never changed the transmission fluid, and mechanics tell me >not to do it, because that would shock it ( if its working, don’t fix it.) >At present, my rear main seal leaks, if I don’t put in an oil additive. The >big question is, what should I do ? >  1..  keep putting the additive in to stop the leak >  2.. Change the rear seal, and maybe the transmission seal while I’m at it >  3.. sell the Van & buy a new one, which would now cost about $27,000.00 >I really like the Van, and I really have no problems, other than the oil >leak, and I love having no monthly payments. >How long can this fantasy last ?

217,000 miles and haven’t changed the transmission fluid?  I probably wouldn’t flush the thing either, heard too many stories.  I have no doubt that the mechanics don’t want to touch anything, because they know, anything goes wrong you’ll be looking at them..   But I would drain and refill + change filter.  You won’t get the stuff in the torque converter, but you’ll get a lot of the metal and crap thats in there.   And then do another drain and refill a few weeks later.  When you (or your garage) drain it the first time..  Get a test kit from http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ — they send them for free..  Put a sample of the transmission fluid in the kit and send it off to them + $20.  They’ll send you a report telling you how much of various metals is sitting in the fluid.  It’s a really good indicator of whats going on in there.. 217k miles and nothing else wrong. I’d say drive it until it breaks… And then swap the engine (if it needs it) and transmission.  Still talking about far less than $27,000… Note: To reply, replace the word ’spam’ embedded in return address with ‘mail’. N38.6 W121.4

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I am the original owner of this GMC Van. This Cargo Van sees mostly highway miles. Very little City miles. The Van is like new. I use it for delivering furniture, and occasionally  pulling a trailer. I have religiously changed the oil. I have never changed the transmission fluid, and mechanics tell me not to do it, because that would shock it ( if its working, don’t fix it.) At present, my rear main seal leaks, if I don’t put in an oil additive. The big question is, what should I do ?   1..  keep putting the additive in to stop the leak   2.. Change the rear seal, and maybe the transmission seal while I’m at it   3.. sell the Van & buy a new one, which would now cost about $27,000.00 I really like the Van, and I really have no problems, other than the oil leak, and I love having no monthly payments. How long can this fantasy last ?

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hi i have a gmc savana 2000  and i like to install i cd changer "toshiba  tx 972 10cd magazine auto changer with remote control… well i like to know what to do i have time to install it  ..so i need some info how to remove the radio and install the power adpter for the cd changer and to hookup the rf wire to the gm radio. rf is the antenna wire. any pic how to …info  please i don’t want to make some mistake and burn something ( and what kind tools to use ??

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that is an OLD changer what, like 1992 or so??? the instructions are on the box if you can’t figure it out you really SHOULDN’T attempt it.

: hi i have a gmc savana 2000  and i like to install i cd changer : "toshiba  tx 972 10cd magazine auto changer with remote control… : well i like to know what to do i have time to install it  ..so i need : some info how to remove the radio and install the power adpter for the : cd changer and to hookup the rf wire to the gm radio. : rf is the antenna wire. : : : any pic how to …info  please i don’t want to make some mistake and : burn something ( : and what kind tools to use ?? : : : :

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i got for free from a costumer so i don’t have any manual ??? any tips or photo how to remove radio  from the van and install back   ….or manual for this cd changer toshiba ??? ..and yes is 1992 ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->that is an OLD changer what, like 1992 or so??? >the instructions are on the box >if you can’t figure it out you really SHOULDN’T attempt it. >: hi i have a gmc savana 2000  and i like to install i cd changer >: "toshiba  tx 972 10cd magazine auto changer with remote control… >: well i like to know what to do i have time to install it  ..so i need >: some info how to remove the radio and install the power adpter for the >: cd changer and to hookup the rf wire to the gm radio. >: rf is the antenna wire. >: >: >: any pic how to …info  please i don’t want to make some mistake and >: burn something ( >: and what kind tools to use ?? >: >: >: >:

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I’m here in Canada driving a GMC 3500 Savana with a 454 engine and a gear ratio of 4.10 – I don’t ever pull anything behind this vehicle and 95% of the time it has six or fewer passengers and their luggage. I do a lot of highway driving and each month spend about $900-$1100 on fuel. It’s been suggested to me that I could change the axle ratio down to 3.53 and get 15% better gas mileage. I’ve been reading these two Chevy Truck news groups and seen varying opinion on whether changing the ratio would result in better economy or not. What all is involved in changing from 4.10 down to 3.53 ?? Is it even possible? I read the GM web page for this vehicle and it shows the only options for buying a new one as being 3.73 and 4.10 – Are there reasons to avoid going down even lower? Also, I’ve been told the change would cost me about $1000 but I’m wondering if this guy is missing out on some important details. One example would be (I’m told) that you’d also have to change the speedometer gear or else your speedo would report the wrong number and you’d get tickets. Can someone enlighten me on these matters? With the rise in gas prices I’m not opposed to the idea of using 15% less fuel. Thanks in advance Max

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m here in Canada driving a GMC 3500 Savana with a 454 >engine and a gear ratio of 4.10 – I don’t ever pull >anything behind this vehicle and 95% of the time it has >six or fewer passengers and their luggage. I do a lot of >highway driving and each month spend about $900-$1100 on >fuel. >It’s been suggested to me that I could change the axle >ratio down to 3.53 and get 15% better gas mileage. I’ve >been reading these two Chevy Truck news groups and seen >varying opinion on whether changing the ratio would result >in better economy or not. >What all is involved in changing from 4.10 down to 3.53 ?? >Is it even possible? I read the GM web page for this >vehicle and it shows the only options for buying a new one >as being 3.73 and 4.10 – Are there reasons to avoid going >down even lower? >Also, I’ve been told the change would cost me about $1000 >but I’m wondering if this guy is missing out on some >important details. One example would be (I’m told) that >you’d also have to change the speedometer gear or else >your speedo would report the wrong number and you’d get >tickets. >Can someone enlighten me on these matters? With the rise >in gas prices I’m not opposed to the idea of using 15% >less fuel. >Thanks in advance >Max

i’m not sure what’s involved in changing your gears, but i’d have to see some real numbers to believe 15% higher mpg/L…. i’ve heard of a few dodge rams that changed them and most got a few miles a gallon increase on the hiway… their in-town driving stayed the same or went down a bit, because you’re using a bit more gas to move the higher gears from a stand still…. mac http://www.aadtonline.com/Bios%20Files/mac%20davis.htm

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Silver Surfer,     I believe that you would get your best highway mileage with a 3.73 ratio. This is the most common ratio for passenger vehicles. Most of the GM vehicles came with this ratio. This includes cars/trucks equipped with 4 cyl. through small block V8’s.     You have a very large engine that develops a lot of torque at low rpm’s. It will have no trouble getting you going from a stop light with a 3.73 ratio. Even a Chevy 350 could spin the tire from a stop with a 3.73.     I would bet that you would get more than a 15% increase in MPG highway with a 3.73 , and you could still tow a very large boat, since you have a 1 ton truck, and large engine. Don’t knock your truck, it was built for serious business, but you don’t need the 4.10 gear for an everyday driver. The 4.10 gear would be good for towing a backhoe tractor on a trailer behind you. If you don’t have a backhoe, then you could change that gear to 3.73.     You should look for a shop that specializes in rear ends. I am a master certified tech., worked for GMC 10 years, but I specialize in drivability and electronics. Having said that,… You would not go to a general practitioner for a hip replacement, would you? Although I could give you some advice on the subject, I’m not a rear end expert (except on women).     I could count on my fingers, how many times I have set-up a new ring and pinion gear set in a vehicle. At that point, I heavily used the service manual for guidance. All of the repairs turned out fine though. Everyone was happy,… Thank God.     As for your speedometer, there is no gear. There is a speed sensor mounted on the trans. You will need to go to a dealer to have the PCM (computer) re-programmed for the new axle ratio.     Hope this helps you. If there are any other techs reading this post, any expert advise would be helpful to this person. GMdude

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   My question is this…Why are you driving a Big-Block 1Ton truck as a daily commuter??? Sell it to me, I defiantly could use it for what it was built for!!!    You neglected to mention if it was 4wd or 2wd.    The biggest problem you are gonna run into is the fact that your engine is broken in w/ the 4.10’s! Changing ratios will drop the revs below the level that the engine has always run at. 3.73’s would cause the fewest problems. You have a torque monster under the hood, they like gas, they also like lower revs! Your gear ratio will be limited to what ratios are available for the rear-end in the truck. 4.10 and 3.73 are available for almost all rears. A higher(numerically lower) ratio than that gets pretty hard to find for BIG rears like I am sure your truck has. Unless you have ALL the equipment you need AND the skill to do it, take it to someone w/ the training.    Keep in mind that gas mileage gains are NOT the same from vehicle to vehicle. Someone w/ the exact same truck as you might get 5 points better MPG. you could lose point just as easily as you could gain them. It is a good idea to slow the spinning of that Rat down. Bigger typically needs slower!    I repeated some things from other posts to your subject. Credit to them that I sampled!

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3500 VAN usually is two-wheel drive

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See http://www.gearvendors.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m here in Canada driving a GMC 3500 Savana with a 454 > engine and a gear ratio of 4.10 – I don’t ever pull > anything behind this vehicle and 95% of the time it has > six or fewer passengers and their luggage. I do a lot of > highway driving and each month spend about $900-$1100 on > fuel. > It’s been suggested to me that I could change the axle > ratio down to 3.53 and get 15% better gas mileage. I’ve > been reading these two Chevy Truck news groups and seen > varying opinion on whether changing the ratio would result > in better economy or not. > What all is involved in changing from 4.10 down to 3.53 ?? > Is it even possible? I read the GM web page for this > vehicle and it shows the only options for buying a new one > as being 3.73 and 4.10 – Are there reasons to avoid going > down even lower? > Also, I’ve been told the change would cost me about $1000 > but I’m wondering if this guy is missing out on some > important details. One example would be (I’m told) that > you’d also have to change the speedometer gear or else > your speedo would report the wrong number and you’d get > tickets. > Can someone enlighten me on these matters? With the rise > in gas prices I’m not opposed to the idea of using 15% > less fuel. > Thanks in advance > Max

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That’s about the craziest thing I’ve ever heard!  According to your theory, every car in my state should have suffered a colapse in the late 80’s. That’s when the speed limit jumped from 55 to 70.  All the sudden, every car was running a different rpm than it had been broken in with… CJB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    My question is this…Why are you driving a Big-Block 1Ton truck as a > daily commuter??? Sell it to me, I defiantly could use it for what it was > built for!!! >    You neglected to mention if it was 4wd or 2wd. >    The biggest problem you are gonna run into is the fact that your engine > is broken in w/ the 4.10’s! Changing ratios will drop the revs below the > level that the engine has always run at. 3.73’s would cause the fewest > problems. You have a torque monster under the hood, they like gas, they also > like lower revs! Your gear ratio will be limited to what ratios are > available for the rear-end in the truck. 4.10 and 3.73 are available for > almost all rears. A higher(numerically lower) ratio than that gets pretty > hard to find for BIG rears like I am sure your truck has. Unless you have > ALL the equipment you need AND the skill to do it, take it to someone w/ the > training. >    Keep in mind that gas mileage gains are NOT the same from vehicle to > vehicle. Someone w/ the exact same truck as you might get 5 points better > MPG. you could lose point just as easily as you could gain them. It is a > good idea to slow the spinning of that Rat down. Bigger typically needs > slower! >    I repeated some things from other posts to your subject. Credit to them > that I sampled!

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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ROTFLMAO   !

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That’s about the craziest thing I’ve ever heard!  According to your theory, > every car in my state should have suffered a colapse in the late 80’s. > That’s when the speed limit jumped from 55 to 70.  All the sudden, every car > was running a different rpm than it had been broken in with… > CJB >    My question is this…Why are you driving a Big-Block 1Ton truck as a > daily commuter??? Sell it to me, I defiantly could use it for what it was > built for!!! >    You neglected to mention if it was 4wd or 2wd. >    The biggest problem you are gonna run into is the fact that your engine > is broken in w/ the 4.10’s! Changing ratios will drop the revs below the > level that the engine has always run at. 3.73’s would cause the fewest > problems. You have a torque monster under the hood, they like gas, they > also > like lower revs! Your gear ratio will be limited to what ratios are > available for the rear-end in the truck. 4.10 and 3.73 are available for > almost all rears. A higher(numerically lower) ratio than that gets pretty > hard to find for BIG rears like I am sure your truck has. Unless you have > ALL the equipment you need AND the skill to do it, take it to someone w/ > the > training. >    Keep in mind that gas mileage gains are NOT the same from vehicle to > vehicle. Someone w/ the exact same truck as you might get 5 points better > MPG. you could lose point just as easily as you could gain them. It is a > good idea to slow the spinning of that Rat down. Bigger typically needs > slower! >    I repeated some things from other posts to your subject. Credit to them > that I sampled! > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

With that much motor, the lower the revs the better.  My truck gets its best mileage when going 60-65 mph, at 1800 rpm.  Or an add-on overdrive like the other guy said (I think they’re spendy, but not sure).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m here in Canada driving a GMC 3500 Savana with a 454 > engine and a gear ratio of 4.10 – I don’t ever pull > anything behind this vehicle and 95% of the time it has > six or fewer passengers and their luggage. I do a lot of > highway driving and each month spend about $900-$1100 on > fuel. > It’s been suggested to me that I could change the axle > ratio down to 3.53 and get 15% better gas mileage. I’ve > been reading these two Chevy Truck news groups and seen > varying opinion on whether changing the ratio would result > in better economy or not. > What all is involved in changing from 4.10 down to 3.53 ?? > Is it even possible? I read the GM web page for this > vehicle and it shows the only options for buying a new one > as being 3.73 and 4.10 – Are there reasons to avoid going > down even lower? > Also, I’ve been told the change would cost me about $1000 > but I’m wondering if this guy is missing out on some > important details. One example would be (I’m told) that > you’d also have to change the speedometer gear or else > your speedo would report the wrong number and you’d get > tickets. > Can someone enlighten me on these matters? With the rise > in gas prices I’m not opposed to the idea of using 15% > less fuel. > Thanks in advance > Max

Response:

My father in law had a big GMC step van similar to your truck in engine and power train. He hauled around a lot of tools and stuff in it and towed a big trailer sometimes but a lot of the time he was empty. He bought a motor home that had been wrecked at salvage that had an add-on overdrive and put the unit on his van. the only time he ever needed to shift down the over drive was when he was towing the trailer up in North Georgia mountains.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> See http://www.gearvendors.com/ > I’m here in Canada driving a GMC 3500 Savana with a 454 > engine and a gear ratio of 4.10 – I don’t ever pull > anything behind this vehicle and 95% of the time it has > six or fewer passengers and their luggage. I do a lot of > highway driving and each month spend about $900-$1100 on > fuel. > It’s been suggested to me that I could change the axle > ratio down to 3.53 and get 15% better gas mileage. I’ve > been reading these two Chevy Truck news groups and seen > varying opinion on whether changing the ratio would result > in better economy or not. > What all is involved in changing from 4.10 down to 3.53 ?? > Is it even possible? I read the GM web page for this > vehicle and it shows the only options for buying a new one > as being 3.73 and 4.10 – Are there reasons to avoid going > down even lower? > Also, I’ve been told the change would cost me about $1000 > but I’m wondering if this guy is missing out on some > important details. One example would be (I’m told) that > you’d also have to change the speedometer gear or else > your speedo would report the wrong number and you’d get > tickets. > Can someone enlighten me on these matters? With the rise > in gas prices I’m not opposed to the idea of using 15% > less fuel. > Thanks in advance > Max

Response:

Might be cheaper to run with smaller tires and make the the axle turn less. Poor mans fuel saver!

Response:

smaller tires = less circumference = more revolutions to travel a given distance = the exact opposite of what you just said. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Might be cheaper to run with smaller tires and make the the > axle turn less. > Poor mans fuel saver!

Response:

>smaller tires = less circumference = more revolutions to travel a given >distance = the exact opposite of what you just said. > Might be cheaper to run with smaller tires and make the the > axle turn less. > Poor mans fuel saver!

tall skinny tires?? (taller tire means lower revs, wider tire, more friction & drag) mac http://www.aadtonline.com/Bios%20Files/mac%20davis.htm

Response:

>I don’t know your Savana, but earlier GM hinge pins were just driven out >with a large hammer and appropriate punch. The "cap" is not removable. >Forcing the pin out tears up the spring retaining clip, but they are >replacable if the dealer has any. If the pin is too worn or too rusty, >you may want to replace with a new pin anyway. It comes with the clip >installed. Worst problem was always finding room to swing the hammer. >Myron E. Williams

Thanks Myron, I got it through my thick head now – those aren’t caps, it’s the pin itself. I can see where it would be difficlut to get a good swing with the hammer. I used Liquid Wrench and kept opening and closing and it finally "broke" free. There is a small (very minor) thump at one point in the door’s swing – but I can live with that. I suspect the pin has a flat spot – I’ll keep it really lubed up from now on. Thanks again! skulker email replies remove .yourpants

Response:

>use WD-40 or something like that. then open and close it until it moves freely >then lube it reguarly

That’s what I’m doing now with no results. It’s not that it’s just difficult to open – the hinge itself is bending rather than rotating on the pin. Methinks it is more than rust skulker email replies remove .yourpants

Response:

I don’t know your Savana, but earlier GM hinge pins were just driven out with a large hammer and appropriate punch. The "cap" is not removable. Forcing the pin out tears up the spring retaining clip, but they are replacable if the dealer has any. If the pin is too worn or too rusty, you may want to replace with a new pin anyway. It comes with the clip installed. Worst problem was always finding room to swing the hammer. Myron E. Williams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings, > I have a 1996 GMC Savana conversion van and the side door has become > VERY difficult to open. I have identified the problem as the lower > hinge binding for some reason. I would like to remove the hinge pin > and see if it is bent or rusted. > Anybody know how to remove the hinge pins? I have the service manual > that I purchased from Helm but it just says "remove the hinge pins". > The drawing shows the top pin goes up to remove and the lower goes > down, but I don’t know how to remove the "cap" on the pin. > Any help would be appreciated! > TIA! > skulker > email replies remove .yourpants

Response:

Greetings, I have a 1996 GMC Savana conversion van and the side door has become VERY difficult to open. I have identified the problem as the lower hinge binding for some reason. I would like to remove the hinge pin and see if it is bent or rusted. Anybody know how to remove the hinge pins? I have the service manual that I purchased from Helm but it just says "remove the hinge pins". The drawing shows the top pin goes up to remove and the lower goes down, but I don’t know how to remove the "cap" on the pin. Any help would be appreciated! TIA! skulker email replies remove .yourpants

Response:

use WD-40 or something like that. then open and close it until it moves freely then lube it reguarly

Response:

Why does the 2001 GMC Savana comes with 2 different headlight/grill styles? TIA Denny

Response:

Ones factory, the other is factory custom for the deluxe models. — PORSCHE…There is no substitute! WebPages: http://www.porsche928driver.nigx.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why does the 2001 GMC Savana comes with 2 different headlight/grill styles? > TIA > Denny

Response:

Don’t they still offer the setup using sealed beam headlamps in the commercial versions?  Is that what you are asking about?  They also can come with molded lamps. NC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why does the 2001 GMC Savana comes with 2 different headlight/grill styles? > TIA > Denny

Response:

Yes, I guess it was the commercial version, that I saw. A single rectangular seal beam per side. Where as other GMC Savana’s had headlight assemblies similiar to the Chevy Express. Denny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t they still offer the setup using sealed beam headlamps in the > commercial versions?  Is that what you are asking about?  They also can come > with molded lamps. > NC > Why does the 2001 GMC Savana comes with 2 different headlight/grill > styles? > TIA > Denny

Response:

The grey grille and sealed beams are offered on a base model or the lowest trim level offered. The Chrome grille is on the more upscale model like an LS or LT Package. Cargo Vans would typically have the grey grille. Harryface 1. 1973 Chevy Impala 4 door,  1980 – 83 2. 1968 Buick  LeSabre Convertible, 1983-86 3. 1978 Olds Holiday 88,  1986 -91 4. 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE, 1991 to ? ? 5. 1989 Chevy Cavalier Z- 24 Convertible, 1996 to 2000

Response:

Thanks Harry! I’ll use that in my info in the deal! Denny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The grey grille and sealed beams are offered on a base model or the > lowest trim level offered. The Chrome grille is on the more upscale > model like an LS or LT Package. > Cargo Vans would typically have the grey grille. > Harryface > 1. 1973 Chevy Impala 4 door,  1980 – 83 > 2. 1968 Buick  LeSabre Convertible, 1983-86 > 3. 1978 Olds Holiday 88,  1986 -91 > 4. 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE, 1991 to ? ? > 5. 1989 Chevy Cavalier Z- 24 Convertible, 1996 to 2000

Response:

 the car mechanics car hardly runs, etc*   : ) Ain’t that the truth!!!!!

Response:

I’ve had a similar experience with a chevrolet dealer in the Dallas area. I placed an order for a chevy express van with this dealership on July 29th. I was told the wait would be 2-3 months. One month ago I started calling the sales guy. (He has never tried contacting me) Each time I called it was always the same answer,"I don’t have any information at this time. Let me get with my sales rep. and see what she knows". I finally called GM. They tell me the express van I ordered has been put out of production until further notice. What is going on? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Helmut, > I had a similar problem with a Cadillac dealer here in the Detroit area. I > agree that the Customer Assistance Service is a total joke. They are indeed > a contracted company from the East Coast whose sole purpose is to submit a > "feeling" of support to GM customers who experience problems. To pamper the > customers who call in is not even their primary mission. It is rather the > compilation of lists/statistics for GM’s management staff as it pertains to > customer complaints. If you listened carefully to their responses during > your complaint you should have noticed that they actually asked questions. > Well, they need to fill in certain forms which they submit to GM to get some > extra payments out of the deal. > I happen to work in the automotive supply industry right here in Detroit. > And even though most of the work my company does is for the domestic > manufacturers/brands,  I came to the firm (but sad) conclusion that none of > them will get any of my business any longer (except company vehicle, because > of car policy). > The service I got from GM and Ford is mediocre at best. And the quality, > durability, etc. is even worse when compared with certain products from Far > East or Europe. > I just think that the US Auto Industrie lost once again their focus. > Ironically, I strongly believe this is primarily attributable to a number of > very "fat" years for the industry. All the problems are downplayed because > SUV’s sell sooo good…right now. > So I am afraid that you and I will have to wait until shortly after the next > major downturn of the domestic Auto sector to get some attention as > customers again. > The current motto seems to be: "We built cars only for Wall Street, not for > Main Street". > Since you need obviously a large delivery vehicle such as the GMT 600 model > you could not get through Bob Fish, your choices are limited. I tend to > believe though that Econolines from Ford may be of a marginally better > quality than the GM models. I know that the door structure, in particular > rear doors and the 60/40 side door including the installed hardware are > definitly sub-standard in terms of surviving the durability tests on the GM. > Herbert Gruber > Rochester Hills, MI > I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended > Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting > over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the > waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. > I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery > needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about > $13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van > to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered > to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade- in > money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact > with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The > vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline > approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given > a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the > plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that > and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the > 2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system. One > of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the > vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without > any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less > than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he > didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance > and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and > forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. > I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never > able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times > and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. > Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October > 3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 > vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had > decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and > backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the > difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer > offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for > my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit > of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order > number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any > good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this > time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t > answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke > to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman. He > refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try > and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, > they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t > find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course > I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some > taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder > which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no > guarantees). > I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped > vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He > couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that > the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They > are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" > and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I > have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable > to get a phone number from anyone involved. > The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously > the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that > happening. > I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my > business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new > vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). > I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered > a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their > "Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone > whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a > vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out > and > buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond > ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring > this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be > very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and > would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick > conclusion. > Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC > employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional > representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish > GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. > — > Helmut Keidl > Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. > (262) 367-8254

Before you buy.

Response:

Thank you for your insight Herbert. My reply was a little off regarding Helmut’s posting…he never had a complaint directly with GMC. I agree with you regarding the craftsmanship, fit and finish of domestic motor vehicles, (it is HARD to beat a Mercedes), but unfortunately here in the States, it is like-wise hard to beat a late model GM pickup truck for dependability, power and comfort as far as full size pickup’s go! Best regards,                     Brett I am the game *supplier,builder and operator*, hence "the game man"…I personally hardly ever play games myself. *The roofer has a leaky roof, the car mechanics car hardly runs, etc*   : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Brett, the gamer, >I could not help but to wonder about your comment regarding the complaints >from Germans and Swedes about SUV’s/Trucks and Minivans.  This is even more >interesting, given that Helmut did not state a single complaint about the >vehicle itself. In fact he never got the vehicle. And maybe he was lucky in >some way that he didn’t. >Fact is that the craftsmanship, fit and finish is very poor on all domestic >vehicles, in particular on LDT’s. And it just so happens that many Europeans >and Asians lay a much more critical eye on the vehicle than most Americans >do. And I think it’s good that it is like that! Where would the domestic auto >industry be if it wasn’t for the broad acceptance of lousy craftsmanship by >the large majority of the vehicle buying public? >Maybe you should have a critical look at various cars in an effort to get a >feel for what brands have a quality appearance to them and which don’t. Door >gaps, sealer application areas, hem flanges, weld flanges, etc. will give you >many clues if you look closely. Some of the complaints you seem to have >observed may just stem from that higher level of sensitivity to fit and >finish by some of the folks from Europe. >Herbert Gruber >Rochester Hills, MI, USA > Your problem is with the Dealer, not GMC. > Yes, the dealer *represents* the manufacturer, but spiff happens when > ordinary people get involved (salespeople usually sux in all industry). > I don’t see a solution to your problem, except not to blame GMC at this > point. > GMC is about to buy several hundred dealerships in order to be more > competitive and customer oriented. > Regarding your trade in, problems can always occur when ordering a new > vehicle…so when it comes to your *business or finances*, a > bird-in-the-hand comes to my mind. > In another matter, I have noticed an unusually high number of Germans and > Swedes having SUV-Truck-Van complaints with GMC/Chevrolet. I wonder why? > the game man, brett > >I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended > >Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting > >over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the > >waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. > >I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery > >needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about > >$13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van > >to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered > >to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade-in > >money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact > >with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The > >vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline > >approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given > >a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the > >plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that > >and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the > >2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system.  One > >of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the > >vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without > >any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less > >than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he > >didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance > >and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and > >forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. > >I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never > >able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times > >and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. > >Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October > >3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 > >vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had > >decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and > >backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the > >difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer > >offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for > >my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit > >of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order > >number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any > >good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this > >time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t > >answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke > >to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman.  He > >refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try > >and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, > >they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t > >find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course > >I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some > >taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder > >which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no > >guarantees). > >I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped > >vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He > >couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that > >the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They > >are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" > >and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I > >have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable > >to get a phone number from anyone involved. > >The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously > >the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that > >happening. > >I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my > >business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new > >vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). > >I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered > >a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their > >"Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone > >whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a > >vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out > >and > >buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond > >ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring > >this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be > >very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and > >would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick > >conclusion. > >Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC > >employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional > >representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish > >GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. > >– > >Helmut Keidl > >Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. > >(262) 367-8254

Response:

Brett, the gamer, I could not help but to wonder about your comment regarding the complaints from Germans and Swedes about SUV’s/Trucks and Minivans.  This is even more interesting, given that Helmut did not state a single complaint about the vehicle itself. In fact he never got the vehicle. And maybe he was lucky in some way that he didn’t. Fact is that the craftsmanship, fit and finish is very poor on all domestic vehicles, in particular on LDT’s. And it just so happens that many Europeans and Asians lay a much more critical eye on the vehicle than most Americans do. And I think it’s good that it is like that! Where would the domestic auto industry be if it wasn’t for the broad acceptance of lousy craftsmanship by the large majority of the vehicle buying public? Maybe you should have a critical look at various cars in an effort to get a feel for what brands have a quality appearance to them and which don’t.  Door gaps, sealer application areas, hem flanges, weld flanges, etc. will give you many clues if you look closely. Some of the complaints you seem to have observed may just stem from that higher level of sensitivity to fit and finish by some of the folks from Europe. Herbert Gruber Rochester Hills, MI, USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Your problem is with the Dealer, not GMC. > Yes, the dealer *represents* the manufacturer, but spiff happens when > ordinary people get involved (salespeople usually sux in all industry). > I don’t see a solution to your problem, except not to blame GMC at this > point. > GMC is about to buy several hundred dealerships in order to be more > competitive and customer oriented. > Regarding your trade in, problems can always occur when ordering a new > vehicle…so when it comes to your *business or finances*, a > bird-in-the-hand comes to my mind. > In another matter, I have noticed an unusually high number of Germans and > Swedes having SUV-Truck-Van complaints with GMC/Chevrolet. I wonder why? > the game man, brett >I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended >Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting >over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the >waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. >I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery >needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about >$13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van >to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered >to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade-in >money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact >with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The >vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline >approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given >a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the >plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that >and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the >2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system.  One >of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the >vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without >any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less >than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he >didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance >and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and >forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. >I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never >able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times >and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. >Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October >3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 >vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had >decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and >backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the >difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer >offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for >my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit >of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order >number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any >good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this >time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t >answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke >to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman.  He >refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try >and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, >they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t >find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course >I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some >taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder >which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no >guarantees). >I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped >vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He >couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that >the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They >are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" >and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I >have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable >to get a phone number from anyone involved. >The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously >the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that >happening. >I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my >business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new >vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). >I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered >a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their >"Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone >whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a >vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out >and >buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond >ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring >this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be >very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and >would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick >conclusion. >Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC >employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional >representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish >GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. >– >Helmut Keidl >Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. >(262) 367-8254

Response:

Helmut, I had a similar problem with a Cadillac dealer here in the Detroit area. I agree that the Customer Assistance Service is a total joke. They are indeed a contracted company from the East Coast whose sole purpose is to submit a "feeling" of support to GM customers who experience problems. To pamper the customers who call in is not even their primary mission. It is rather the compilation of lists/statistics for GM’s management staff as it pertains to customer complaints. If you listened carefully to their responses during your complaint you should have noticed that they actually asked questions. Well, they need to fill in certain forms which they submit to GM to get some extra payments out of the deal. I happen to work in the automotive supply industry right here in Detroit. And even though most of the work my company does is for the domestic manufacturers/brands,  I came to the firm (but sad) conclusion that none of them will get any of my business any longer (except company vehicle, because of car policy). The service I got from GM and Ford is mediocre at best. And the quality, durability, etc. is even worse when compared with certain products from Far East or Europe. I just think that the US Auto Industrie lost once again their focus. Ironically, I strongly believe this is primarily attributable to a number of very "fat" years for the industry. All the problems are downplayed because SUV’s sell sooo good…right now. So I am afraid that you and I will have to wait until shortly after the next major downturn of the domestic Auto sector to get some attention as customers again. The current motto seems to be: "We built cars only for Wall Street, not for Main Street". Since you need obviously a large delivery vehicle such as the GMT 600 model you could not get through Bob Fish, your choices are limited. I tend to believe though that Econolines from Ford may be of a marginally better quality than the GM models. I know that the door structure, in particular rear doors and the 60/40 side door including the installed hardware are definitly sub-standard in terms of surviving the durability tests on the GM. Herbert Gruber Rochester Hills, MI – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended > Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting > over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the > waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. > I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery > needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about > $13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van > to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered > to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade-in > money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact > with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The > vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline > approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given > a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the > plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that > and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the > 2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system.  One > of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the > vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without > any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less > than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he > didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance > and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and > forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. > I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never > able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times > and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. > Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October > 3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 > vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had > decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and > backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the > difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer > offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for > my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit > of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order > number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any > good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this > time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t > answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke > to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman.  He > refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try > and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, > they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t > find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course > I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some > taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder > which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no > guarantees). > I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped > vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He > couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that > the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They > are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" > and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I > have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable > to get a phone number from anyone involved. > The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously > the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that > happening. > I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my > business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new > vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). > I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered > a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their > "Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone > whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a > vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out > and > buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond > ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring > this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be > very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and > would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick > conclusion. > Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC > employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional > representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish > GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. > — > Helmut Keidl > Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. > (262) 367-8254

Response:

Your problem is with the Dealer, not GMC. Yes, the dealer *represents* the manufacturer, but spiff happens when ordinary people get involved (salespeople usually sux in all industry). I don’t see a solution to your problem, except not to blame GMC at this point. GMC is about to buy several hundred dealerships in order to be more competitive and customer oriented. Regarding your trade in, problems can always occur when ordering a new vehicle…so when it comes to your *business or finances*, a bird-in-the-hand comes to my mind. In another matter, I have noticed an unusually high number of Germans and Swedes having SUV-Truck-Van complaints with GMC/Chevrolet. I wonder why? the game man, brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended >Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting >over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the >waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. >I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery >needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about >$13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van >to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered >to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade-in >money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact >with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The >vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline >approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given >a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the >plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that >and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the >2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system.  One >of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the >vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without >any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less >than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he >didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance >and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and >forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. >I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never >able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times >and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. >Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October >3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 >vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had >decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and >backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the >difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer >offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for >my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit >of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order >number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any >good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this >time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t >answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke >to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman.  He >refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try >and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, >they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t >find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course >I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some >taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder >which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no >guarantees). >I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped >vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He >couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that >the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They >are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" >and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I >have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable >to get a phone number from anyone involved. >The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously >the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that >happening. >I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my >business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new >vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). >I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered >a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their >"Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone >whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a >vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out >and >buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond >ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring >this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be >very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and >would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick >conclusion. >Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC >employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional >representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish >GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. >– >Helmut Keidl >Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. >(262) 367-8254

Response:

I’ve been having a lot of trouble buying a GMC Savana 3500 Extended Van from Bob Fish GMC in West Bend, Wisconsin.  I have been waiting over 5 months for this vehicle and there is currently no end to the waiting.  Here is what has happened to me so far. I ordered the vehicle in early April for my company’s delivery needs.  Shortly after that, I traded in my GMC Suburban for about $13,500.  I also was planning on selling my company’s current van to an individual who was willing to wait for the new van to be delivered to me for about $6000.  The have been sitting on the Suburban trade-in money for all this time.  I had numerous problems keeping in contact with my salesperson but didn’t think much of it at the time.  The vehicle when ordered was supposed to take 6-8 weeks.  As that deadline approached, I began to question where the vehicle was and was given a line about it being pushed into a 2000 model year order because the plant was no longer going to be building 1999 vehicles.  I accepted that and waited some more.  When I began pushing for a delivery date of the 2000, he was at first unable to find a build date in the system.  One of the many times I called, I was told that the dealer thought the vehicle was going to be built in August.  August came and went without any call from the dealer.  When I called him back again, he was less than helpful.  He couldn’t give me an order number or build date–he didn’t have that info handy.  Then I called up GM Customer Assistance and they were very courteous (but very unhelpful).  We talked back and forth many times but they were able to do little but call the dealer. I began to try and ask the dealer for an order number but he was never able to get one.  I asked for an order number many many many times and each time he said it wasn’t handy but he’d get back to me with it. Sometime in that time I was given a build date of the week of October 3rd but was then told they had accidentally ordered the standard 3500 vs the extended 3500.  By this time, the buyer of my old Van had decided he could no longer wait for me to get my new vehicle and backed out of the deal (quite understandably) so I am now losing the difference between what he offered me ($6000) and what the dealer offered me for trade-in ($2500) unless I can find a new buyer for my old van.  At this point I knew I was getting quite a bit of a run-around.  I called back the dealer and I demanded the order number.  Again he didn’t have it and he stressed it wouldn’t do me any good because it was the order number for the wrong vehicle.  In this time, I tried to talk to Bob Fish (the owner).  He was not in or wasn’t answering his pages.  I tried to talk to the General Manager.  I spoke to him once and he put me on hold and passed me onto the salesman.  He refused to talk to me at that time.  They also told me they could try and find another vehicle on another dealers lot.  Quite predictably, they never called back and when I called them, I was told they couldn’t find anything.  They offered to refund my money at this point (of course I will lose any tax benefits of trading this vehicle in along with some taxes from depreciation of the old vehicle) or he could try and reorder which would probably take 6-8 weeks again (but of course, no guarantees). I made some calls of my own and I was able to find a similarly equipped vehicle on a lot somewhere and I even pointed it to the dealer.  He couldn’t come to terms with this dealer.  I have since found out that the "Customer Assistance" I have been calling is not even GMC.  They are an outside firm who GMC pays to "keep customers calm or happy" and the only thing they have done so far is call the dealer back.  I have tried to speak to a regional representative but have been unable to get a phone number from anyone involved. The dealer is still "trying to resolve the situation."  Obviously the way this whole thing has progressed, I have little faith in that happening. I want to add that I have been a longtime GMC customer.  Between my business and my family purchases this would have been the 11th new vehicle in 10 years (about $275k in business to GMC). I am not only frustrated with the dealer who I don’t think even ordered a vehicle at any point.  I am also frustrated with GMC.  I called their "Customer Assistance" expecting to speak to a GMC employee not someone whose only job is to calm me down.  I would very much like to purchase a vehicle, but at this point I feel on principles alone I should go out and buy a Dodge or Ford vehicle.  Waiting 5 months for a vehicle is beyond ridiculous and even at this point they are doing very little to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion.  I run my own business and I would be very embarrassed if any of my customers were treated in this manner and would be doing everything in my power to bring this to a quick conclusion. Can anyone give me any suggestions.  I would like to speak to a GMC employee who I can voice my concerns with, such as a regional representative.  I would like a complaint to be noted against Bob Fish GMC since their treatment of this matter has been horrendous. — Helmut Keidl Midwest Composite Technologies, Inc. (262) 367-8254

Response: