Question regarding 4×4 Vehicles…
Question:
Don, Chevy just ran a print media campaign in the 4×4 mags a while back… the 1936 model looks amazingly like the current production models, especially if the current one is black. Goes to show… a great idea is timeless. Dean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Dean Dardwin might have said: >[reformatted] >>Dean Dardwin might have said: >>>BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >>>was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. >>Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever >>they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, >>I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, >>mind you. <g> >>Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q. >Don, >The first Chevy Suburban was a 1936 model year made in 1935. >Dean >Wow. I didn’t know that they were in production so long! I’m gonna >have to go Google on them and look for pics. I think I’m seeing a >wasted Sunday afternoon already! <g> >BTW, what’s all this caca? >Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> ><html> ><head> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> > <title></title> ></head> ><body> >Don,<br> ><br> >The first Chevy Suburban was a 1936 model year made in 1935.<br> ><br> >Dean<br> ><br> ><blockquote type="cite" > <pre wrap="">Dean Dardwin might have said: > </pre> > <blockquote type="cite"> > <pre wrap="">BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > </pre> > </blockquote> > <pre wrap=""><!—-> >Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever >they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, >I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, >mind you. <g> >Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q. > </pre> ></blockquote> ><br> ></body> ></html>
Response:
Dean Dardwin might have said: [reformatted] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dean Dardwin might have said: >>BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >>was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. >Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever >they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, >I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, >mind you. <g> >Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q. >Don, >The first Chevy Suburban was a 1936 model year made in 1935. >Dean
Wow. I didn’t know that they were in production so long! I’m gonna have to go Google on them and look for pics. I think I’m seeing a wasted Sunday afternoon already! <g> BTW, what’s all this caca? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> ><html> ><head> > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> > <title></title> ></head> ><body> >Don,<br> ><br> >The first Chevy Suburban was a 1936 model year made in 1935.<br> ><br> >Dean<br> ><br> ><blockquote type="cite" > <pre wrap="">Dean Dardwin might have said: > </pre> > <blockquote type="cite"> > <pre wrap="">BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > </pre> > </blockquote> > <pre wrap=""><!—-> >Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever >they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, >I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, >mind you. <g> >Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q. > </pre> ></blockquote> ><br> ></body> ></html>
Response:
I have all wheel drive Bravada, eats up front prop shafts. but however great in extreme weather, muddy roads, and off road.SARGE
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Maybe before you write that big check for a new 4×4 Tahoo or Suburban you > may want to look into an AWD (all wheel drive) vehicle. They are made to > always drive all 4 wheels regardless of the road conditions. > The dissavantage is the are not really made for offroad use, they do not > have a high or low range, advantage is they are rather fool proof if you > don’t want to have to think about the option of 2W or 4W drive or the road > traction conditions. If you like the size of your Explorer the GMC Envoy, > Olds Bravada, and I thing the Mercury Mountineer are a couple of options to > look at that offer the AWD option. I am not sure if the Tahoo, Yukon or > Escalade has this option or not, The Denali might, I haven’t checked lately. > I have a Bravada for my wife and it is the best option for her I could have > come up with. Always has the traction she needs if the roads are wet, icy or > dry. Don’t forget the tow package if you are going to use it to tow > anything.
Response:
The Envoy is NOT AWD, the Denali and Denali XL are both AWD and the Cadillac Escalade can be purchased both in 2wd and AWD models. Jerry H. — A GMC dealer
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Maybe before you write that big check for a new 4×4 Tahoo or Suburban you > may want to look into an AWD (all wheel drive) vehicle. They are made to > always drive all 4 wheels regardless of the road conditions. > The dissavantage is the are not really made for offroad use, they do not > have a high or low range, advantage is they are rather fool proof if you > don’t want to have to think about the option of 2W or 4W drive or the road > traction conditions. If you like the size of your Explorer the GMC Envoy, > Olds Bravada, and I thing the Mercury Mountineer are a couple of options to > look at that offer the AWD option. I am not sure if the Tahoo, Yukon or > Escalade has this option or not, The Denali might, I haven’t checked lately. > I have a Bravada for my wife and it is the best option for her I could have > come up with. Always has the traction she needs if the roads are wet, icy or > dry. Don’t forget the tow package if you are going to use it to tow > anything.
Response:
Or possibly a Yukon XL Jerry H. — A GMC Dealer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Tim, > The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD > drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you > engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer > case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction > situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right? > So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of > "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, > ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed > dry clay, etc.). > BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It > was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > Dean >It’s awfully sad, but I bought a ‘02 Ford Explorer 4×4 last October, brand new, so >it’s BARELY getting to be a year old, and here I am already considering my next >vehicle (which WILL be a GM product as I am tired of dealing with Ford dealerships). >Anyway, I specifically wanted a 4×4 vehicle to help with traction in slick situations >(ice, snow, mud, etc) However, I later found out that this 4×4 is NOT to be used on >anything else other than where it has slippage on the ground (i.e. can’t use it on >just "wet pavement"). That rather confused me, I was under the impression that 4×4 >vehicles were specifically designed for "off road" use. (Also keep in mind I am only >22 years old and I hardly understand anything about these new vehicles. My last >vehicle was a 1984 Chevrolet Scottsdale pickup with a 350 V8 engine). >So, I guess what I am needing and wanting to find out…. >I can’t decide between the Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 or the Chevrolet Tahoe Z71. >I’d prefer the Tahoe as I prefer the real "SUV" look (although I think the Avalanche >is cool as heck! lol) >Are either one of those vehicles able to use the 4×4 in off-road situations? >Thanks for any assistance you can provide >Tim
Response:
Maybe before you write that big check for a new 4×4 Tahoo or Suburban you may want to look into an AWD (all wheel drive) vehicle. They are made to always drive all 4 wheels regardless of the road conditions. The dissavantage is the are not really made for offroad use, they do not have a high or low range, advantage is they are rather fool proof if you don’t want to have to think about the option of 2W or 4W drive or the road traction conditions. If you like the size of your Explorer the GMC Envoy, Olds Bravada, and I thing the Mercury Mountineer are a couple of options to look at that offer the AWD option. I am not sure if the Tahoo, Yukon or Escalade has this option or not, The Denali might, I haven’t checked lately. I have a Bravada for my wife and it is the best option for her I could have come up with. Always has the traction she needs if the roads are wet, icy or dry. Don’t forget the tow package if you are going to use it to tow anything.
Response:
Don, The first Chevy Suburban was a 1936 model year made in 1935. Dean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Dean Dardwin might have said: >BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. >Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever >they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, >I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, >mind you. <g> >Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q.
Response:
Thanks for the response. It’s making better sense now. Tim
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tim, > The 4 wheel drive system does not provide any more towing power for making > it up hills. It just makes all 4 wheels have power of their own, instead of > 2 doing the powering and 2 doing the rolling. Yes, in low range, you will > have more power, but that is not feasable for on-highway driving (depending > on your transfer case, it can knock your *max* speed down to 45 or lower). > 4×4 vehicles are to be used in 4wd mode only in low traction conditions > because it essentially locks the front wheels and the rear wheels together > with the power from the engine, and in doing this, when used in > high-traction situations, creates unthinkable stress on your drivetrain, > because like it or not, your front axle will turn at a slightly different > rate than the back one (either through gear differences, tire height > differences or just plain old turning), and that leads to catastrophic loss. > Some of the older 4×4’s used a ‘full-time’ 4wd system, but the transfer case > had a differential in it, and in non-loc position, allowed that difference > of speed in the front and rear driveshafts, but could be ‘loc’ed together on > low traction (the ‘79 GMC K-1500 I drive has that system in it), but they > don’t do that to too many vehicles (if any) anymore because it sucks down > gas, and wears out things more quickly. > HTH > — > Lonestar Computer Services > http://home.austin.rr.com/jchavers/lcs > 512.928.9935 > > The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD > > drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you > > engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer > > case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction > > situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right? > Well…. please forgive me, but again, I know nothing of 4×4 vehicles. I > BARELY know > of a transfer case. > But what you speak of was not (before now) common sense to me. > My thoughts about using the 4WD on high-traction was this… mainly for > off road > situations, but what about towing a trailer thru hilly/mountainous areas? > I often > haul our family’s boat (not on my Explorer yet, however) back and forth > between our > home near Oklahoma City and Lake Texoma (on the Oklahoma/Texas border). > Going down > I-35, you run into the Arbuckle’s, lots of up and down hills, many > somewhat steep > (when hauling anything). I remember having to turn off the A/C in my 84 > Chevy Truck > just to get up some of those hills. PLEASE correct me if I am thinking in > the wrong > lines, but wouldn’t the added 4WD in that situation tremendously help the > power you > have? > > So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of > > "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, > > ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed > > dry clay, etc.). > My definition of off-road does indeed apply to high-traction situations as > you stated > in your examples. In that situation, could a 4×4 vehicle designed for > that, also be > used on low-traction? Or can you not "have your cake and eat it too" ?? > > BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It > > was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > > Dean > My uncle owns a 1996 Suburban… it is a very nice vehicle, although, my > 84 Chevy > truck was a huge thing to drive and maneuver. I liked the Explorer in > that I could > almost go anywhere, but now I’m tired of the compact space to carry people > in. > Tim
Response:
Tim, The 4 wheel drive system does not provide any more towing power for making it up hills. It just makes all 4 wheels have power of their own, instead of 2 doing the powering and 2 doing the rolling. Yes, in low range, you will have more power, but that is not feasable for on-highway driving (depending on your transfer case, it can knock your *max* speed down to 45 or lower). 4×4 vehicles are to be used in 4wd mode only in low traction conditions because it essentially locks the front wheels and the rear wheels together with the power from the engine, and in doing this, when used in high-traction situations, creates unthinkable stress on your drivetrain, because like it or not, your front axle will turn at a slightly different rate than the back one (either through gear differences, tire height differences or just plain old turning), and that leads to catastrophic loss. Some of the older 4×4’s used a ‘full-time’ 4wd system, but the transfer case had a differential in it, and in non-loc position, allowed that difference of speed in the front and rear driveshafts, but could be ‘loc’ed together on low traction (the ‘79 GMC K-1500 I drive has that system in it), but they don’t do that to too many vehicles (if any) anymore because it sucks down gas, and wears out things more quickly. HTH — Lonestar Computer Services http://home.austin.rr.com/jchavers/lcs 512.928.9935
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD > drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you > engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer > case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction > situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right? > Well…. please forgive me, but again, I know nothing of 4×4 vehicles. I BARELY know > of a transfer case. > But what you speak of was not (before now) common sense to me. > My thoughts about using the 4WD on high-traction was this… mainly for off road > situations, but what about towing a trailer thru hilly/mountainous areas? I often > haul our family’s boat (not on my Explorer yet, however) back and forth between our > home near Oklahoma City and Lake Texoma (on the Oklahoma/Texas border). Going down > I-35, you run into the Arbuckle’s, lots of up and down hills, many somewhat steep > (when hauling anything). I remember having to turn off the A/C in my 84 Chevy Truck > just to get up some of those hills. PLEASE correct me if I am thinking in the wrong > lines, but wouldn’t the added 4WD in that situation tremendously help the power you > have? > So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of > "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, > ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed > dry clay, etc.). > My definition of off-road does indeed apply to high-traction situations as you stated > in your examples. In that situation, could a 4×4 vehicle designed for that, also be > used on low-traction? Or can you not "have your cake and eat it too" ?? > BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It > was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > Dean > My uncle owns a 1996 Suburban… it is a very nice vehicle, although, my 84 Chevy > truck was a huge thing to drive and maneuver. I liked the Explorer in that I could > almost go anywhere, but now I’m tired of the compact space to carry people in. > Tim
Response:
NEVER use 4WD when on dry pavement. I doesn’t matter how steep the hill. Dont do it. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD > drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you > engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer > case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction > situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right? > Well…. please forgive me, but again, I know nothing of 4×4 vehicles. I BARELY know > of a transfer case. > But what you speak of was not (before now) common sense to me. > My thoughts about using the 4WD on high-traction was this… mainly for off road > situations, but what about towing a trailer thru hilly/mountainous areas? I often > haul our family’s boat (not on my Explorer yet, however) back and forth between our > home near Oklahoma City and Lake Texoma (on the Oklahoma/Texas border). Going down > I-35, you run into the Arbuckle’s, lots of up and down hills, many somewhat steep > (when hauling anything). I remember having to turn off the A/C in my 84 Chevy Truck > just to get up some of those hills. PLEASE correct me if I am thinking in the wrong > lines, but wouldn’t the added 4WD in that situation tremendously help the power you > have? > So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of > "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, > ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed > dry clay, etc.). > My definition of off-road does indeed apply to high-traction situations as you stated > in your examples. In that situation, could a 4×4 vehicle designed for that, also be > used on low-traction? Or can you not "have your cake and eat it too" ?? > BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It > was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > Dean > My uncle owns a 1996 Suburban… it is a very nice vehicle, although, my 84 Chevy > truck was a huge thing to drive and maneuver. I liked the Explorer in that I could > almost go anywhere, but now I’m tired of the compact space to carry people in. > Tim
Response:
Dean Dardwin might have said: >BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It >was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made.
Out of curiosity, did it pre-date the IH umm, Travel-All or whatever they used to sell? True 40’s Jeeps were U only, not much S to them, I’d say. Not that some folks didn’t make them into something else, mind you. <g> Don ‘Remembers the "Anything else is just a car" campaign’ Q.
Response:
> The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD > drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you > engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer > case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction > situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right?
Well…. please forgive me, but again, I know nothing of 4×4 vehicles. I BARELY know of a transfer case. But what you speak of was not (before now) common sense to me. My thoughts about using the 4WD on high-traction was this… mainly for off road situations, but what about towing a trailer thru hilly/mountainous areas? I often haul our family’s boat (not on my Explorer yet, however) back and forth between our home near Oklahoma City and Lake Texoma (on the Oklahoma/Texas border). Going down I-35, you run into the Arbuckle’s, lots of up and down hills, many somewhat steep (when hauling anything). I remember having to turn off the A/C in my 84 Chevy Truck just to get up some of those hills. PLEASE correct me if I am thinking in the wrong lines, but wouldn’t the added 4WD in that situation tremendously help the power you have? > So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of > "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, > ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed > dry clay, etc.).
My definition of off-road does indeed apply to high-traction situations as you stated in your examples. In that situation, could a 4×4 vehicle designed for that, also be used on low-traction? Or can you not "have your cake and eat it too" ?? > BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It > was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. > Dean
My uncle owns a 1996 Suburban… it is a very nice vehicle, although, my 84 Chevy truck was a huge thing to drive and maneuver. I liked the Explorer in that I could almost go anywhere, but now I’m tired of the compact space to carry people in. Tim
Response:
Tim, The distinction you make is not quite right. Any transfer case based 4WD drive system can be used in 4WD in low-traction situations. If you engage 4WD in high-traction situations, you can damage the transfer case. Common sense is the key here. If you are in a high-traction situation, you don’t need to be using 4WD drive anyway, right? So to answer your question, you have to decide if your definition of "off-road" implies a low-traction situation (loose gravel, sand, snow, ice, wet rock, etc.) or a high-traction situation (dry rock, hard packed dry clay, etc.). BTW, before you write that check for a Tahoe, test drive a Suburban. It was the first, and for my money still is, the only real SUV ever made. Dean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It’s awfully sad, but I bought a ‘02 Ford Explorer 4×4 last October, brand new, so >it’s BARELY getting to be a year old, and here I am already considering my next >vehicle (which WILL be a GM product as I am tired of dealing with Ford dealerships). >Anyway, I specifically wanted a 4×4 vehicle to help with traction in slick situations >(ice, snow, mud, etc) However, I later found out that this 4×4 is NOT to be used on >anything else other than where it has slippage on the ground (i.e. can’t use it on >just "wet pavement"). That rather confused me, I was under the impression that 4×4 >vehicles were specifically designed for "off road" use. (Also keep in mind I am only >22 years old and I hardly understand anything about these new vehicles. My last >vehicle was a 1984 Chevrolet Scottsdale pickup with a 350 V8 engine). >So, I guess what I am needing and wanting to find out…. >I can’t decide between the Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 or the Chevrolet Tahoe Z71. >I’d prefer the Tahoe as I prefer the real "SUV" look (although I think the Avalanche >is cool as heck! lol) >Are either one of those vehicles able to use the 4×4 in off-road situations? >Thanks for any assistance you can provide >Tim
Response:
It’s awfully sad, but I bought a ‘02 Ford Explorer 4×4 last October, brand new, so it’s BARELY getting to be a year old, and here I am already considering my next vehicle (which WILL be a GM product as I am tired of dealing with Ford dealerships). Anyway, I specifically wanted a 4×4 vehicle to help with traction in slick situations (ice, snow, mud, etc) However, I later found out that this 4×4 is NOT to be used on anything else other than where it has slippage on the ground (i.e. can’t use it on just "wet pavement"). That rather confused me, I was under the impression that 4×4 vehicles were specifically designed for "off road" use. (Also keep in mind I am only 22 years old and I hardly understand anything about these new vehicles. My last vehicle was a 1984 Chevrolet Scottsdale pickup with a 350 V8 engine). So, I guess what I am needing and wanting to find out…. I can’t decide between the Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 or the Chevrolet Tahoe Z71. I’d prefer the Tahoe as I prefer the real "SUV" look (although I think the Avalanche is cool as heck! lol) Are either one of those vehicles able to use the 4×4 in off-road situations? Thanks for any assistance you can provide Tim
