GM Ripping off Consumers!!!

GMC FAQ » GMC Envoy » GM Ripping off Consumers!!!

Question:

When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and they can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be the poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. Besides poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

> When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, > and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and they > can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be the > poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. Besides > poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Piss off troll. — Regards Dan

Response:

You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the hard and EXPENSIVE way!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and they >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be the >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. Besides >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

> GM has to be the >poorest in the industry for quality

Come on, Eden, don’t hold back. Why not tell us what you REALLY think? John

Response:

Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You want poor quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the transmission literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa Fe, blown engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my one automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a battery which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, causing a ton of damage.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the hard and > EXPENSIVE way!!! >When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and > they >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be > the >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. > Besides >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Maybe we’d take you more seriously if you told us exactly what happened. Besides, it seems odd to me that a guy as intelligent as you obviously must be hasn’t taken advantage of the lemon law, gotten your money back and walked away rather than sticking around and staying so frustrated.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, > and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and they > can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be the > poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. Besides > poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Okay… with a stunningly convincing argument like this, how can I not listen to him? What a genius! I will ignore the fact that I have had several new GM cars in my day, that were all faultless, and go by what this guy has to say. Wow… thanks… how can anybody argue with his logic? WickedSS

Response:

BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of ‘charmed’ experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going to have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with my 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason for all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed vehicle from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a first year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. Right?! WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered very minor issues. Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. Maybe they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a 138,000 miles on it. Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You want poor >quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the transmission >literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa Fe, blown >engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my one >automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. >Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a battery >which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, causing >a ton of damage. > You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the hard and > EXPENSIVE way!!! > >When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, > >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and > they > >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to be > the > >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. > Besides > >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with your 2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and letting us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your experience and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I think you can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the high end of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go out tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I have to wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against them. Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind it. But I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out blind in one eye.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of ‘charmed’ > experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going to > have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with my > 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason for > all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed vehicle > from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at > 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a first > year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you > should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. Right?! > WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of > production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of > them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered very > minor issues. > Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. Maybe > they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that > they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a > 138,000 miles on it. > Ron >Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You want > poor >quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the > transmission >literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa Fe, > blown >engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my one >automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. >Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a > battery >which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, > causing >a ton of damage. >> You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the hard > and >> EXPENSIVE way!!! >> >When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, >> >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and >> they >> >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to > be >> the >> >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. >> Besides >> >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Good luck with the settlement Jeff. I hope that it all works out for you. In addition to the transmission failure in my 2002 TrailBlazer, here’s a PARTIAL list of other problems that I’ve encountered thus far: -Faulty cam position actuator had to be replaced. *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. -Faulty cam position phaser had to be replaced *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. NOTE: It took four visits to two different dealerships to ultimately have items one and two above resolved. -Rear pinion seal was faulty and had to be replaced to stop it from leaking fluid. However, it’s already started to leak again when it’s been sitting on my inclined, concrete driveway for a few days straight. -Rear hatch panel produces an ‘oil canning’ effect near the license plate frame area that results in a clicking/popping noise during temperature changes. People riding in the vehicle for the first time are like…"What’s that clicking or popping noise Ron?" -Stereo gets EXTREMELY hot when driving the vehicle on a fairly long trip. I mean it produces UNUSUAL heat too. Nothing like I’ve seen from a car stereo before. -A VERY loud fan noise is highly noticeable sometimes when you first start the vehicle. When this happens there’s also a loss of horsepower. This effect usually lasts less than a minute, and then the excessive fan noise goes away and the horsepower levels return to normal. -There’s also some sort of clicking noise that seems to be coming from the mirrors. I can’t quite pin this one down yet, but it’s pretty annoying at times. -One time it leaked water pretty badly during a long, heavy, steady rain. The driver’s side floorboard had a puddle of water in it when I opened the door to get in it. -Glove box rattles part of the time–unless it was strategically shut last. :-) As you can see from the list above, my TrailBlazer experience hasn’t exactly been a pleasant one. Since I work during the day as a product development engineer I stay very busy. There’s no way that I can continue to take time off of work to run this SUV back to the dealership for repairs. The pain really isn’t eased by the fact that the vehicle is still under warranty and the repairs aren’t going to cost me anything. I’m just sick and tired of encountering one problem after the other with a new vehicle that cost me a lot of money. Again, I’m going to have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law. Admittedly, GM’s rep has been really, really nice to me regarding this SUV problem. Unfortunately, a lot of sweet-talking, sugar-coating and tap dancing around the issues doesn’t get it with me. I just want the BBB to get it bought back from me so that I can go plop the cash down on something else. Seriously, I most definitely wish ALL other GM new car buyers and current owners the very best of luck!!! Obviously I was a huge GM fan before this experience or I wouldn’t have taken a chance on buying a new 2002 TrailBlazer. Do I think that the other two manufacturers of the ‘Big Three’ in Detroit are any better? Probably not. In fact, I’m almost 100% sure that they’re not any better. However, I do feel that outside of the ‘Big Three’ there is better quality to be had. So, that’s what I’ll pursue if I can get my money back for this particular vehicle. Regards, Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with your >2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and letting >us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your experience >and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I think you >can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the high end >of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go out >tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I have to >wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against them. >Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind it. But >I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. >Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out blind in >one eye. > BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of ‘charmed’ > experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going to > have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with my > 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason for > all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed vehicle > from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at > 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a first > year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you > should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. Right?! > WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of > production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of > them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered very > minor issues. > Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. Maybe > they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that > they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a > 138,000 miles on it. > Ron > >Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You want > poor > >quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the > transmission > >literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa Fe, > blown > >engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my one > >automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. > >Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a > battery > >which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, > causing > >a ton of damage. > >> You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the hard > and > >> EXPENSIVE way!!! > >> >When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, > >> >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again and > >> they > >> >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has to > be > >> the > >> >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and reliability. > >> Besides > >> >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Well, I can’t blame you – I’m much more sympathetic when you’re not just rambling about how horrible GM is! That said, I’d dump that TB like week-old potato salad. It is a 1st year model, yes, but that is still no excuse. My wife bought a 1st model year Ford Escape, and even after a ton of miles we have had 0 problems with it. And that’s a Ford product, home of the "10 recalls in a year!" Focus. Most of your problems I’ve read about on various GM sites, so they’re nothing new. That ‘rear hatch panel’ problem is due to the plastic surrounding the handle expanding and contracting in the heat. GM has a gasket to install to fix this, but you’re going to want to demand they repaint the gate (look closely at the edges of the plastic where it meets metal, and you’ll see what I mean). The fan noise is fixed by having the dealer updating the climate control program. Go to www.edmunds.com – go to the Town Hall, and search for the ‘MY2002 Chevy TB, GMC Envoy, Olds Bravada’ thread. You’ll find others who feel your pain, I’ve seen most of your problems in there. However, I would still dump the TB if you can. New builds of the vehicle are MUCH better, but I don’t blame you if you go elsewhere. It’s really too bad, because I honestly don’t think there is a better SUV for the price out there right now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good luck with the settlement Jeff. I hope that it all works out for > you. > In addition to the transmission failure in my 2002 TrailBlazer, here’s a > PARTIAL list of other problems that I’ve encountered thus far: > -Faulty cam position actuator had to be replaced. > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > -Faulty cam position phaser had to be replaced > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > NOTE: It took four visits to two different dealerships to ultimately > have items one and two above resolved. > -Rear pinion seal was faulty and had to be replaced to stop it from > leaking fluid. However, it’s already started to leak again when it’s > been sitting on my inclined, concrete driveway for a few days straight. > -Rear hatch panel produces an ‘oil canning’ effect near the license > plate frame area that results in a clicking/popping noise during > temperature changes. People riding in the vehicle for the first time are > like…"What’s that clicking or popping noise Ron?" > -Stereo gets EXTREMELY hot when driving the vehicle on a fairly long > trip. I mean it produces UNUSUAL heat too. Nothing like I’ve seen from a > car stereo before. > -A VERY loud fan noise is highly noticeable sometimes when you first > start the vehicle. When this happens there’s also a loss of horsepower. > This effect usually lasts less than a minute, and then the excessive fan > noise goes away and the horsepower levels return to normal. > -There’s also some sort of clicking noise that seems to be coming from > the mirrors. I can’t quite pin this one down yet, but it’s pretty > annoying at times. > -One time it leaked water pretty badly during a long, heavy, steady > rain. The driver’s side floorboard had a puddle of water in it when I > opened the door to get in it. > -Glove box rattles part of the time–unless it was strategically shut > last. :-) > As you can see from the list above, my TrailBlazer experience hasn’t > exactly been a pleasant one. Since I work during the day as a product > development engineer I stay very busy. There’s no way that I can > continue to take time off of work to run this SUV back to the dealership > for repairs. The pain really isn’t eased by the fact that the vehicle is > still under warranty and the repairs aren’t going to cost me anything. > I’m just sick and tired of encountering one problem after the other with > a new vehicle that cost me a lot of money. Again, I’m going to have to > pursue my state’s Lemon Law. Admittedly, GM’s rep has been really, > really nice to me regarding this SUV problem. Unfortunately, a lot of > sweet-talking, sugar-coating and tap dancing around the issues doesn’t > get it with me. I just want the BBB to get it bought back from me so > that I can go plop the cash down on something else. > Seriously, I most definitely wish ALL other GM new car buyers and > current owners the very best of luck!!! Obviously I was a huge GM fan > before this experience or I wouldn’t have taken a chance on buying a new > 2002 TrailBlazer. Do I think that the other two manufacturers of the > ‘Big Three’ in Detroit are any better? Probably not. In fact, I’m almost > 100% sure that they’re not any better. However, I do feel that outside > of the ‘Big Three’ there is better quality to be had. So, that’s what > I’ll pursue if I can get my money back for this particular vehicle. > Regards, > Ron >Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with > your >2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and > letting >us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your > experience >and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I > think you >can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the > high end >of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go out >tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I have > to >wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against them. >Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind it. > But >I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. >Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out blind > in >one eye. >> BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of > ‘charmed’ >> experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going > to >> have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with > my >> 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason > for >> all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed > vehicle >> from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at >> 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a > first >> year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you >> should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. > Right?! >> WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of >> production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of >> them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered > very >> minor issues. >> Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. > Maybe >> they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that >> they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a >> 138,000 miles on it. >> Ron >> >Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You > want >> poor >> >quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the >> transmission >> >literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa > Fe, >> blown >> >engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my > one >> >automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. >> >Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a >> battery >> >which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, >> causing >> >a ton of damage. >> >> You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the > hard >> and >> >> EXPENSIVE way!!! >> >> >When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, >> >> >and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again > and >> >> they >> >> >can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has > to >> be >> >> the >> >> >poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and > reliability. >> >> Besides >> >> >poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Good luck with the settlement Jeff. I hope that it all works out for > you. > In addition to the transmission failure in my 2002 TrailBlazer, here’s a > PARTIAL list of other problems that I’ve encountered thus far: > -Faulty cam position actuator had to be replaced. > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > -Faulty cam position phaser had to be replaced > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > NOTE: It took four visits to two different dealerships to ultimately > have items one and two above resolved. > -Rear pinion seal was faulty and had to be replaced to stop it from > leaking fluid. However, it’s already started to leak again when it’s > been sitting on my inclined, concrete driveway for a few days straight.

This was a bad axle before it even turned once. The whole thing should be replaced, the sealing surface is no good. > -Rear hatch panel produces an ‘oil canning’ effect near the license > plate frame area that results in a clicking/popping noise during > temperature changes. People riding in the vehicle for the first time are > like…"What’s that clicking or popping noise Ron?"

This has been resolved from what I hear. See the dealer, they may give you the part and let you put it in > -Stereo gets EXTREMELY hot when driving the vehicle on a fairly long > trip. I mean it produces UNUSUAL heat too. Nothing like I’ve seen from a > car stereo before.

I’ve heard scattered reports of this. My aftermarket radio gets pretty hot, but it sits right under vents in the dash… > -A VERY loud fan noise is highly noticeable sometimes when you first > start the vehicle. When this happens there’s also a loss of horsepower. > This effect usually lasts less than a minute, and then the excessive fan > noise goes away and the horsepower levels return to normal.

It’s an engine-driven clutch fan. My 94 Jimmy (with a brand-new clutch) still does this, my dad’s 2000 Durango does this, I think it did it when he drove it off the dealer’s lot. Nature of the beast (the clutch fan) not much to do about it except put in an electric fan. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> -There’s also some sort of clicking noise that seems to be coming from > the mirrors. I can’t quite pin this one down yet, but it’s pretty > annoying at times. > -One time it leaked water pretty badly during a long, heavy, steady > rain. The driver’s side floorboard had a puddle of water in it when I > opened the door to get in it. > -Glove box rattles part of the time–unless it was strategically shut > last. :-) > As you can see from the list above, my TrailBlazer experience hasn’t > exactly been a pleasant one. Since I work during the day as a product > development engineer I stay very busy. There’s no way that I can > continue to take time off of work to run this SUV back to the dealership > for repairs. The pain really isn’t eased by the fact that the vehicle is > still under warranty and the repairs aren’t going to cost me anything. > I’m just sick and tired of encountering one problem after the other with > a new vehicle that cost me a lot of money. Again, I’m going to have to > pursue my state’s Lemon Law. Admittedly, GM’s rep has been really, > really nice to me regarding this SUV problem. Unfortunately, a lot of > sweet-talking, sugar-coating and tap dancing around the issues doesn’t > get it with me. I just want the BBB to get it bought back from me so > that I can go plop the cash down on something else. > Seriously, I most definitely wish ALL other GM new car buyers and > current owners the very best of luck!!! Obviously I was a huge GM fan > before this experience or I wouldn’t have taken a chance on buying a new > 2002 TrailBlazer. Do I think that the other two manufacturers of the > ‘Big Three’ in Detroit are any better? Probably not. In fact, I’m almost > 100% sure that they’re not any better. However, I do feel that outside > of the ‘Big Three’ there is better quality to be had. So, that’s what > I’ll pursue if I can get my money back for this particular vehicle. > Regards, > Ron >Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with > your >2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and > letting >us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your > experience >and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I > think you >can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the > high end >of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go out >tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I have > to >wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against them. >Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind it. > But >I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. >Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out blind > in >one eye. >>BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of > ‘charmed’ >>experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going > to >>have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with > my >>2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason > for >>all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed > vehicle >>from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at >>9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a > first >>year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you >>should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. > Right?! >>WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of >>production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of >>them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered > very >>minor issues. >>Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. > Maybe >>they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that >>they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a >>138,000 miles on it. >>Ron >>>Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are you just bored? You > want >>poor >>>quality, buy a Korean make. Friend bought a Kia Sportage, the >>transmission >>>literally exploded at 700 miles. Coworker bought a Hyundai Santa > Fe, >>blown >>>engine at 1500 miles. I’ve had great luck with my GM vehicles – my > one >>>automotive horror story was with a Volks Jetta I bought new in ‘96. >>>Everything electrical failed on that car at least once, including a >>battery >>>which disintegrated and leaked acid all over the engine compartment, >>causing >>>a ton of damage. >>>>You are EXACTLY right. I know this now–but I had to learn the > hard >>and >>>>EXPENSIVE way!!! >>>>>When someone spends in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a vehicle, >>>>>and you have to take it back to the dealer time, and time again > and >>>>they >>>>>can’t fix it there HAS to be some very seriously wrong!!! GM has > to >>be >>>>the >>>>>poorest in the industry for quality, workmanship, and > reliability. >>>>Besides >>>>>poor styling; be smart and buy ANYTHING else!!!

Response:

Good luck with your TB. Had one since last July, about 24,000 miles now on it. The GM warranty is no guarantee of a fix. They couldn’t care less. Anything beyond an oil change is too much of a challenge for the typical GM dealership. Had the howling axle fixed after this newsgroup clued me in, the dealer was clueless. OK, it was repaired. (Whew.) Have the loud fan on cold acceleration. Asked dealer to flash the rom, they said it was already the most recent. Problem still exists. Have had front brakes worked on multiple times. Strange noises still come from front end. The selling dealer put in aftermarket pads for an intermittent hot and loud squeak. Aftermarket freaking pads. Is this a joke? Yes, on me. The second dealer replaced both front rotors and pads a few thousand miles later when the squeak returned and worsened into an audible and tactile chattering condition. Nice braking system. Almost forgot to mention that the rotors felt slightly warped when the vehicle was brand new. Effective QA. I think the TB is cursed with unfixability. It is certainly cursed by a disinterested dealer network: The real corker is that the shifter, at random, would not come out of PARK. Which is great if one has ten minutes to screw around with it, and the patience of Jobe. Two different dealers have looked at this, both "cannot duplicate". So, on a day off this week, I ripped out the center console and juryrigged the solenoid//actuator to stay in the emergency release position. Which means that the shifter can be pulled out of PARK even without the key in the ignition. Which I don’t like, but at least we can drive off now. When I dump the vehicle I will remove my "fix". Maybe the subsequent buyer can get someone to fix the problem. GM is not interested based on my experience to date. Nor can GM find their asses from their brains. Warranty or no, they refuse to find and fix this problem. Sorry to say I have learned they have a "Can’t Do" attitude. I rue the day I bot this rig for my wife. Needless to say, this will be the very last GM we will ever purchase. Too bad GM, but you asked for it. If treating present customers as if they don’t matter is their plan on how to generate goodwill and future business, well…. Other than that we like the vehicle. Too bad it has a Jekyl and Hyde personality.

Response:

Believe me BobH, I can sympathize with you. No doubt about it. The myriad problems with my TrailBlazer has me a little torqued off at the moment. But that doesn’t upset me as bad as the fact that the dealerships I’ve discussed these issues with seem totally clueless regarding the diagnosis of the problems. All they can say is…"Well, we’ve heard of this problem before, but we’re really not sure how to fix it." GREAT!!! That REALLY makes me feel better about my latest vehicle purchase. One dealership’s service department couldn’t even determine where a fluid leak was coming from. I took it home and crawled up underneath it with a flashlight and noticed that it was coming from the rear end. So then I took it to another dealership to have the rear pinion seal replaced. Get this. The first dealership’s service technician put engine oil dye in it, drove it NINETY-ONE FRIGGIN’ MILES for reasons still unknown to me, and ultimately said…"There’s nothing wrong with this engine. It’s not leaking a drop of oil." Uhhhh, no wonder. He never even looked at the rear end–which is where the fluid leak was coming from. All in all, this latest GM/Chevrolet Dealership experience of mine has just been WAAAYYYYY too much for me to handle. My patience has ran out with these people. As a general rule, I’m pretty laid back. But the dealerships’ nonchalant attitudes regarding my TrailBlazer-related problems are about enough to piss off THE POPE!!! Hang in there BobH. If you’re like me, you’ve just accepted the fact that this whole experience is the price of an education. Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Good luck with your TB. Had one since last July, about 24,000 miles now on >it. >The GM warranty is no guarantee of a fix. They couldn’t care less. >Anything >beyond an oil change is too much of a challenge for the typical GM >dealership. >Had the howling axle fixed after this newsgroup clued me in, the dealer was >clueless. >OK, it was repaired. (Whew.) >Have the loud fan on cold acceleration. Asked dealer to flash the rom, they >said it >was already the most recent. Problem still exists. >Have had front brakes worked on multiple times. Strange noises still come >from front end. >The selling dealer put in aftermarket pads for an intermittent hot and loud >squeak. >Aftermarket freaking pads. Is this a joke? Yes, on me. >The second dealer replaced both front rotors and pads a few thousand miles >later when the squeak returned >and worsened into an audible and tactile chattering condition. Nice braking >system. Almost >forgot to mention that the rotors felt slightly warped when the vehicle was >brand new. >Effective QA. >I think the TB is cursed with unfixability. It is certainly cursed by a >disinterested dealer network: >The real corker is that the shifter, at random, would not come out of PARK. >Which is great >if one has ten minutes to screw around with it, and the patience of Jobe. >Two different dealers >have looked at this, both "cannot duplicate". So, on a day off this week, I >ripped out the center >console and juryrigged the solenoid//actuator to stay in the emergency >release position. Which >means that the shifter can be pulled out of PARK even without the key in the >ignition. Which I don’t like, >but at least we can drive off now. When I dump the vehicle I will remove my >"fix". Maybe the >subsequent buyer can get someone to fix the problem. GM is not interested >based on my >experience to date. Nor can GM find their asses from their brains. >Warranty or no, they >refuse to find and fix this problem. Sorry to say I have learned they have >a >"Can’t Do" attitude. I rue the day I bot this rig for my wife. >Needless to say, this will be the very last GM we will ever purchase. Too >bad GM, but you >asked for it. If treating present customers as if they don’t matter is >their plan on how to >generate goodwill and future business, well…. >Other than that we like the vehicle. Too bad it has a Jekyl and Hyde >personality. > Good luck with the settlement Jeff. I hope that it all works out for > you. > In addition to the transmission failure in my 2002 TrailBlazer, here’s a > PARTIAL list of other problems that I’ve encountered thus far: > -Faulty cam position actuator had to be replaced. > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > -Faulty cam position phaser had to be replaced > *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. > NOTE: It took four visits to two different dealerships to ultimately > have items one and two above resolved. > -Rear pinion seal was faulty and had to be replaced to stop it from > leaking fluid. However, it’s already started to leak again when it’s > been sitting on my inclined, concrete driveway for a few days straight. > -Rear hatch panel produces an ‘oil canning’ effect near the license > plate frame area that results in a clicking/popping noise during > temperature changes. People riding in the vehicle for the first time are > like…"What’s that clicking or popping noise Ron?" > -Stereo gets EXTREMELY hot when driving the vehicle on a fairly long > trip. I mean it produces UNUSUAL heat too. Nothing like I’ve seen from a > car stereo before. > -A VERY loud fan noise is highly noticeable sometimes when you first > start the vehicle. When this happens there’s also a loss of horsepower. > This effect usually lasts less than a minute, and then the excessive fan > noise goes away and the horsepower levels return to normal. > -There’s also some sort of clicking noise that seems to be coming from > the mirrors. I can’t quite pin this one down yet, but it’s pretty > annoying at times. > -One time it leaked water pretty badly during a long, heavy, steady > rain. The driver’s side floorboard had a puddle of water in it when I > opened the door to get in it. > -Glove box rattles part of the time–unless it was strategically shut > last. :-) > As you can see from the list above, my TrailBlazer experience hasn’t > exactly been a pleasant one. Since I work during the day as a product > development engineer I stay very busy. There’s no way that I can > continue to take time off of work to run this SUV back to the dealership > for repairs. The pain really isn’t eased by the fact that the vehicle is > still under warranty and the repairs aren’t going to cost me anything. > I’m just sick and tired of encountering one problem after the other with > a new vehicle that cost me a lot of money. Again, I’m going to have to > pursue my state’s Lemon Law. Admittedly, GM’s rep has been really, > really nice to me regarding this SUV problem. Unfortunately, a lot of > sweet-talking, sugar-coating and tap dancing around the issues doesn’t > get it with me. I just want the BBB to get it bought back from me so > that I can go plop the cash down on something else. > Seriously, I most definitely wish ALL other GM new car buyers and > current owners the very best of luck!!! Obviously I was a huge GM fan > before this experience or I wouldn’t have taken a chance on buying a new > 2002 TrailBlazer. Do I think that the other two manufacturers of the > ‘Big Three’ in Detroit are any better? Probably not. In fact, I’m almost > 100% sure that they’re not any better. However, I do feel that outside > of the ‘Big Three’ there is better quality to be had. So, that’s what > I’ll pursue if I can get my money back for this particular vehicle. > Regards, > Ron > >Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with > your > >2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and > letting > >us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your > experience > >and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I > think you > >can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the > high end > >of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go out > >tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I have > to > >wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against them. > >Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind it. > But > >I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. > >Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out blind > in > >one eye. > >> BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of > ‘charmed’ > >> experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m going > to > >> have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems with > my > >> 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason > for > >> all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed > vehicle > >> from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing at > >> 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a > first > >> year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you > >> should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of production. > Right?! > >> WRONG. I’ve purchased other new vehicles in their first year of > >> production and didn’t have the first minute’s worth of trouble out of > >> them for SEVERAL thousand miles. And even then I only encountered > very > >> minor issues. > >> Not everyone is BORED just because they don’t agree with you Rich. > Maybe > >> they’re just PISSED over dropping a wad of cash on a new vehicle that > >> they don’t trust to drive on a trip as much as their old ride with a > >> 138,000 miles on it. > >> Ron > >> >Do you guys even have any anecdotes, or are

Response:

Time to invoke the Lemon Law on this one it sounds like.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Believe me BobH, I can sympathize with you. No doubt about it. The > myriad problems with my TrailBlazer has me a little torqued off at the > moment. But that doesn’t upset me as bad as the fact that the > dealerships I’ve discussed these issues with seem totally clueless > regarding the diagnosis of the problems. All they can say is…"Well, > we’ve heard of this problem before, but we’re really not sure how to fix > it." GREAT!!! That REALLY makes me feel better about my latest vehicle > purchase. One dealership’s service department couldn’t even determine > where a fluid leak was coming from. I took it home and crawled up > underneath it with a flashlight and noticed that it was coming from the > rear end. So then I took it to another dealership to have the rear > pinion seal replaced. Get this. The first dealership’s service > technician put engine oil dye in it, drove it NINETY-ONE FRIGGIN’ MILES > for reasons still unknown to me, and ultimately said…"There’s nothing > wrong with this engine. It’s not leaking a drop of oil." Uhhhh, no > wonder. He never even looked at the rear end–which is where the fluid > leak was coming from. > All in all, this latest GM/Chevrolet Dealership experience of mine has > just been WAAAYYYYY too much for me to handle. My patience has ran out > with these people. As a general rule, I’m pretty laid back. But the > dealerships’ nonchalant attitudes regarding my TrailBlazer-related > problems are about enough to piss off THE POPE!!! > Hang in there BobH. If you’re like me, you’ve just accepted the fact > that this whole experience is the price of an education. > Ron >Good luck with your TB. Had one since last July, about 24,000 miles > now on >it. >The GM warranty is no guarantee of a fix. They couldn’t care less. >Anything >beyond an oil change is too much of a challenge for the typical GM >dealership. >Had the howling axle fixed after this newsgroup clued me in, the dealer > was >clueless. >OK, it was repaired. (Whew.) >Have the loud fan on cold acceleration. Asked dealer to flash the rom, > they >said it >was already the most recent. Problem still exists. >Have had front brakes worked on multiple times. Strange noises still > come >from front end. >The selling dealer put in aftermarket pads for an intermittent hot and > loud >squeak. >Aftermarket freaking pads. Is this a joke? Yes, on me. >The second dealer replaced both front rotors and pads a few thousand > miles >later when the squeak returned >and worsened into an audible and tactile chattering condition. Nice > braking >system. Almost >forgot to mention that the rotors felt slightly warped when the vehicle > was >brand new. >Effective QA. >I think the TB is cursed with unfixability. It is certainly cursed by > a >disinterested dealer network: >The real corker is that the shifter, at random, would not come out of > PARK. >Which is great >if one has ten minutes to screw around with it, and the patience of > Jobe. >Two different dealers >have looked at this, both "cannot duplicate". So, on a day off this > week, I >ripped out the center >console and juryrigged the solenoid//actuator to stay in the emergency >release position. Which >means that the shifter can be pulled out of PARK even without the key > in the >ignition. Which I don’t like, >but at least we can drive off now. When I dump the vehicle I will > remove my >"fix". Maybe the >subsequent buyer can get someone to fix the problem. GM is not > interested >based on my >experience to date. Nor can GM find their asses from their brains. >Warranty or no, they >refuse to find and fix this problem. Sorry to say I have learned they > have >a >"Can’t Do" attitude. I rue the day I bot this rig for my wife. >Needless to say, this will be the very last GM we will ever purchase. > Too >bad GM, but you >asked for it. If treating present customers as if they don’t matter is >their plan on how to >generate goodwill and future business, well…. >Other than that we like the vehicle. Too bad it has a Jekyl and Hyde >personality. >> Good luck with the settlement Jeff. I hope that it all works out for >> you. >> In addition to the transmission failure in my 2002 TrailBlazer, > here’s a >> PARTIAL list of other problems that I’ve encountered thus far: >> -Faulty cam position actuator had to be replaced. >> *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. >> -Faulty cam position phaser had to be replaced >> *Caused the ‘Service Engine Soon’ light to come on and stay on. >> NOTE: It took four visits to two different dealerships to ultimately >> have items one and two above resolved. >> -Rear pinion seal was faulty and had to be replaced to stop it from >> leaking fluid. However, it’s already started to leak again when it’s >> been sitting on my inclined, concrete driveway for a few days > straight. >> -Rear hatch panel produces an ‘oil canning’ effect near the license >> plate frame area that results in a clicking/popping noise during >> temperature changes. People riding in the vehicle for the first time > are >> like…"What’s that clicking or popping noise Ron?" >> -Stereo gets EXTREMELY hot when driving the vehicle on a fairly long >> trip. I mean it produces UNUSUAL heat too. Nothing like I’ve seen > from a >> car stereo before. >> -A VERY loud fan noise is highly noticeable sometimes when you first >> start the vehicle. When this happens there’s also a loss of > horsepower. >> This effect usually lasts less than a minute, and then the excessive > fan >> noise goes away and the horsepower levels return to normal. >> -There’s also some sort of clicking noise that seems to be coming > from >> the mirrors. I can’t quite pin this one down yet, but it’s pretty >> annoying at times. >> -One time it leaked water pretty badly during a long, heavy, steady >> rain. The driver’s side floorboard had a puddle of water in it when I >> opened the door to get in it. >> -Glove box rattles part of the time–unless it was strategically shut >> last. :-) >> As you can see from the list above, my TrailBlazer experience hasn’t >> exactly been a pleasant one. Since I work during the day as a product >> development engineer I stay very busy. There’s no way that I can >> continue to take time off of work to run this SUV back to the > dealership >> for repairs. The pain really isn’t eased by the fact that the vehicle > is >> still under warranty and the repairs aren’t going to cost me > anything. >> I’m just sick and tired of encountering one problem after the other > with >> a new vehicle that cost me a lot of money. Again, I’m going to have > to >> pursue my state’s Lemon Law. Admittedly, GM’s rep has been really, >> really nice to me regarding this SUV problem. Unfortunately, a lot of >> sweet-talking, sugar-coating and tap dancing around the issues > doesn’t >> get it with me. I just want the BBB to get it bought back from me so >> that I can go plop the cash down on something else. >> Seriously, I most definitely wish ALL other GM new car buyers and >> current owners the very best of luck!!! Obviously I was a huge GM fan >> before this experience or I wouldn’t have taken a chance on buying a > new >> 2002 TrailBlazer. Do I think that the other two manufacturers of the >> ‘Big Three’ in Detroit are any better? Probably not. In fact, I’m > almost >> 100% sure that they’re not any better. However, I do feel that > outside >> of the ‘Big Three’ there is better quality to be had. So, that’s what >> I’ll pursue if I can get my money back for this particular vehicle. >> Regards, >> Ron >> >Now that’s the spirit. Now we know that you are having problems with >> your >> >2002 Trailblazer. It’s great that you are blowing off steam here and >> letting >> >us know what kind of experience you are having. Because of your >> experience >> >and stories I have heard from other people about the Trailblazer I >> think you >> >can count me out. I plan on my next vehicle being something on the >> high end >> >of the cadillac scale. Haven’t quite made up my mind, and I’d go > out >> >tomorrow and buy it, but the availability of funds isn’t there. I > have >> to >> >wait for the Gov’t to settle on my (malpractice) lawsuit against > them. >> >Who knows, maybe I’ll go buy a motor home and tow a Corvette behind > it. >> But >> >I can’t do a thing until they give me some money. >> >Damn them military doctors. Go in for sinus surgery and come out > blind >> in >> >one eye. >> >> BORED MY ASS MR. RICH!!! Not everyone has had the same type of >> ‘charmed’ >> >> experience with their GM product that you apparently have. I’m > going >> to >> >> have to pursue my state’s Lemon Law due to all of the problems > with >> my >> >> 2002 TrailBlazer LTZ. Oh no, wait a minute. There’s a valid reason >> for >> >> all of these problems with my TrailBlazer. It’s a newly designed >> vehicle >> >> from GM. Therefore ALL problems, such as the transmission failing > at >> >> 9,000 miles of operation, HAVE to be overlooked. It’s okay for a >> first >> >> year design to be problematic if it’s from GM. Right?! Oh, but you >> >> should NEVER buy a new vehicle in its first year of

Response:

One other thing, too – it sounds like Ron needs to LL his, but for everyone else you might want to try a dealer that sells GMC/Olds and see if they can fix your problems. If there’s one with a combo department that also sells Buick/Cadillac, all the better; I’ve noticed their service depts tend to employ more… thorough staff. Good luck all.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Time to invoke the Lemon Law on this one it sounds like. > Believe me BobH, I can sympathize with you. No doubt about it. The > myriad problems with my TrailBlazer has me a little torqued off

Response:

Ron, I’m in Texas and had many problems with Mitsubishi Galant on a single problem (door rattle) they couldn’t fix. The BBB was no help, however I went to the DOT site and downloaded the lemon law information, including the recommended letter. I sent this to the Dealer president/owner, DOT, dealer and Mitsubishi America. In a week, they called me for an appointment, loaned me a Misti Diamante for the time the car was in the shop (unlimited mileage and gas included). They were informed that I was going on a trip out of state–in their car. The problem was fixed. Bottom line–the lemon law letters work. As for GM products, I have had 1 Cutlass, 3 Camaros, 1 Corsica and currently own a 1999 Venture. On the Venture, I had to have the lower intake manifold gasket replaced at 60,000 miles due to a design flaw in the gasket which caused a coolant leak. GM acknowledges the error, but will not issue a recall. Overall, my ownership experiences with GM have been positive. Mopar has its issues with very weak transmissions in the Dodge Caravan. Jeff, if you are retired Military/Active Duty the Feres Doctrine (1959) will not allow you to sue as your medical care (or lack thereof) is part of your military/retired compensation–this is a law that should have been deleted LONG AGO!! Good luck on your efforts, I hope you will succeed. Good luck on this. Mike