Question:
> I (state your name) have been a member of the GM CULT for XX years >and badly need to be DE-PROGRAMMING. >PLEASE help these brainwashed souls.
Physican, heal thyself. Who programmed _you_? LOL…..
Response:
>: You mean you Canadians SBC lovers don’t sit around and slap each other >: on the back about how great this or that head works with their SBC?
This ain’t EVEN mean spirited. >?!? >It’s one thing to have a personal viewpoint and defend it with well >constructed arguments. It’s another to rant like an imbecile. Your >ludicrous ravings and tendancy to resort to ad hominem attacks
I didn’t start the personal attacks, Steve did but if you consider my rib poking to be attacks, then you haven’t been around the ‘usenet’ very much. And who are you to judge me for presenting a case about why I dislike GM? Last I heard this was a free country. Good God people, you’d think I was trashing the grave of Abe Lincoln and not some FAT CAT auto maker, for what I consider damned good reasons. Now everyone repeat after me: I (state your name) have been a member of the GM CULT for XX years and badly need to be DE-PROGRAMMING. PLEASE help these brainwashed souls. Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
WOW!! This group has a bunch of people that just like to say " I know more than you, see look at all the words I just used!! " . Man you guys must type real fast!! I had to adjust my screen saver timer because it kept popping up before I was done reading your snivels. I thought a news group was to reply to help out others or post a problem of your own so others might help you! Not post that " your mom gives me road head" like Mr. Burn Out, or" The corporate hidden agenda of the automotive manufacturer of the vehicle you are presently in the possession of is woefully in the dark ages on its technological advancements…Please allow me to relight my $20.00 cigar that was given to me by my close personal friend Mr. Lee Imabroka" just typing the makes me feel like I need to go out and find me an intern to grope. And it only took me 45 minutes to type !!! STOP BITCHING AT EACH OTHER!!! GET A LIFE YOUR WIFE/HUSBAND/KIDS/DOG/CAT/OR LIFE PARTNER, MISS YOU!! I’m going to go out and watch this kid next door, he just got a new set of tires on his ‘93 Rectom no I meen Spectrom and wes gonna go do some BRODEES or SMOKEE BURN OUTS!! Or maybe BARNEY IS ON !! O’ BOY!!, Paul
Response:
Thanks for your detailed response. >Paycheck? Let me tell you bub. I am an independent in the automotive >business. I fix GM, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Dodge(all Chrysler products >are called Dodge around here – even the new Nazi Dodge ), Volvo… ad >nausiam.
Wait. This doesn’t gel. Everyone (large metro’s) specializes these days, unless it’s simple brakes, tire, shock, cvboot or muffler work. You’re saying you do major engine or transmission work on all the above and actually make money up there in Grand Rapids? Hmmm… >Lets talk business. When I sell a part, I work off a fixed markup. The more >expensive the part the more income. Nip parts have some of the biggest >pricetags ever printed (not counting the Nazi iron). Buy all you want, you >won’t break my heart. Now. How about labor? Take a 3.0 Ford vs. a 3.0 >Toyota. Wanna guess the labor difference? I don’t wanna hear no shit about >reliability. I do about the same numbers in ratio to population.
I don’t buy the reliability aspect but know the parts are more expensive and GM cars may generally requires less labor for similar repairs. But except for cam belts (and their getting away from that for chains, more and more) your average Taurus, Lumina, Intrepid will break down 3 or more times more often than a Camry, Accord or Maxima. German cars are already mostly chain cam drives. >Lets talk about the mightymouse engine. Yup, the smallblock Chevy that you >love to hate. Yes it is cast iron. No it is not OHC. It is repairable, and
Wait a minute, the truck mills are cast iron but aren’t the vette’s and camaro engines aluminum? IOW, Same problems and we’re going to have to get used to this until they make better plastic radiators or go back to Aluminum or copper (not). >at a decent price. The heads don’t warp on an average overheat – but your >(name your favorite Nippon here) will. No t-belt to change. In short – too >dumb and faithful to die. The whole Jap philosophy is to make a car that >will run for x years and then be recycled. They are not designed to be kept >alive by repairs.
I’m not buying this. You live in the rust belt where cars have a 3 year half life but out west there’s lots of 10-30 year old German and Japanese cars running around. You suppose they’re all original engines;) >The only thing that bothers me is that GM is adapting to the Jap train of >thought. >They are beginning to make unrepairables.
What do you mean by unrepairable? Although the dealers will try to get you to swap for a $10K or > rebuilt engine, it can be done by competent repair people at 20% of that. I know because my brother and I rebuilt my sister’s Lexus 250 for ~$2K. And CV joints etc; are all available in cheap rebuilt’s ($60-75 per half shaft). Just what do you mean, you can’t rebuilt a jap fuel pump or busted heater fan? >I don’t care what YOU buy. It must be tuff to find a car that suits your >personality now that Renault left the country.
Touche.. and I don’t mind getting beat up if I’m learning something. PS. Steve. I posted this yesterday evening (~10:00PM MST) but I’m having to re send it because it’s not showing up. [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
Thanks for your detailed response. >Paycheck? Let me tell you bub. I am an independent in the automotive >business. I fix GM, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Dodge(all Chrysler products >are called Dodge around here – even the new Nazi Dodge ), Volvo… ad >nausiam.
Wait. This doesn’t gel. Everyone (large metro’s) specializes these days, unless it’s simple brakes, tire, shock, cvboot or muffler work. You’re saying you do major engine or transmission work on all the above and actually make money up there in Grand Rapids? Hmmm… >Lets talk business. When I sell a part, I work off a fixed markup. The more >expensive the part the more income. Nip parts have some of the biggest >pricetags ever printed (not counting the Nazi iron). Buy all you want, you >won’t break my heart. Now. How about labor? Take a 3.0 Ford vs. a 3.0 >Toyota. Wanna guess the labor difference? I don’t wanna hear no shit about >reliability. I do about the same numbers in ratio to population.
I don’t buy the reliability aspect but know the parts are more expensive and GM cars may generally requires less labor for similar repairs. But except for cam belts (and their getting away from that for chains, more and more) your average Taurus, Lumina, Intrepid will break down 3 or more times more often than a Camry, Accord or Maxima. German cars are already mostly chain cam drives. >Lets talk about the mightymouse engine. Yup, the smallblock Chevy that you >love to hate. Yes it is cast iron. No it is not OHC. It is repairable, and
Wait a minute, the truck mills are cast iron but aren’t the vette’s and camaro engines aluminum? IOW, Same problems and we’re going to have to get used to this until they make better plastic radiators or go back to Aluminum or copper (not). >at a decent price. The heads don’t warp on an average overheat – but your >(name your favorite Nippon here) will. No t-belt to change. In short – too >dumb and faithful to die. The whole Jap philosophy is to make a car that >will run for x years and then be recycled. They are not designed to be kept >alive by repairs.
I’m not buying this. You live in the rust belt where cars have a 3 year half life but out west there’s lots of 10-30 year old German and Japanese cars running around. You suppose they’re all original engines;) >The only thing that bothers me is that GM is adapting to the Jap train of >thought. >They are beginning to make unrepairables.
What do you mean by unrepairable? Although the dealers will try to get you to swap for a $10K or > rebuilt engine, it can be done by competent repair people at 20% of that. I know because my brother and I rebuilt my sister’s Lexus 250 for ~$2K. And CV joints etc; are all available in cheap rebuilt’s ($60-75 per half shaft). Just what do you mean, you can’t rebuilt a jap fuel pump or busted heater fan? >I don’t care what YOU buy. It must be tuff to find a car that suits your >personality now that Renault left the country.
Touche.. and I don’t mind getting beat up if I’m learning something. However, your ’small town’ rust belt prospective seems pretty limited. BTW, domestics STILL own most the small town business, so this further limits your prospective. [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
>Gee! Such venomous statements. Please tell us what crawled up your ass and >died to illicit such comments of the overall condition of GM.
Follow the whole thread Patti or come up with something counter (more than two or three lines) besides providing you with a paycheck. Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
Paycheck? Let me tell you bub. I am an independent in the automotive business. I fix GM, Ford, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Dodge(all Chrysler products are called Dodge around here – even the new Nazi Dodge ), Volvo… ad nausiam. Lets talk business. When I sell a part, I work off a fixed markup. The more expensive the part the more income. Nip parts have some of the biggest pricetags ever printed (not counting the Nazi iron). Buy all you want, you won’t break my heart. Now. How about labor? Take a 3.0 Ford vs. a 3.0 Toyota. Wanna guess the labor difference? I don’t wanna hear no shit about reliability. I do about the same numbers in ratio to population. Lets talk about the mightymouse engine. Yup, the smallblock Chevy that you love to hate. Yes it is cast iron. No it is not OHC. It is repairable, and at a decent price. The heads don’t warp on an average overheat – but your (name your favorite Nippon here) will. No t-belt to change. In short – too dumb and faithful to die. The whole Jap philosophy is to make a car that will run for x years and then be recycled. They are not designed to be kept alive by repairs. The only thing that bothers me is that GM is adapting to the Jap train of thought. They are beginning to make unrepairables. I don’t care what YOU buy. It must be tuff to find a car that suits your personality now that Renault left the country. Cheers ! And remember that when your Nippon Cruiser dies, somewhere, someone will be smiling and counting your dollars.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gee! Such venomous statements. Please tell us what crawled up your ass and >died to illicit such comments of the overall condition of GM. > Follow the whole thread Patti or come up with something counter (more > than two or three lines) besides providing you with a paycheck. > Bob Nixon > http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
: You mean you Canadians SBC lovers don’t sit around and slap each other : on the back about how great this or that head works with their SBC? ?!? It’s one thing to have a personal viewpoint and defend it with well constructed arguments. It’s another to rant like an imbecile. Your ludicrous ravings and tendancy to resort to ad hominem attacks undermine your credibility. Until recently I took your comments on GM products seriously. Now I’m inclined to dismiss you as yet another rambling net-loony. This is a really dull .signature file.
Response:
[...] >That _is_ the purpose of business, remember? Not research, not being >"cutting edge"….making money.
GM doesn’t sell cars all that well anymore. First let look at the bread and butter sedans. Camry, Maxima, Passat, Taurus, Intrepid…Hell Lumina’s not even in the running. They’re so desperate to make a dent in this class that they pulled the old Impala name out of moth balls. Small sedans are in just as bad shape, with Saturn’s sales dipping this last year. Can you say Corolla, Civic, Altima or Neon, with Cavalier sucking the usual rear spot. Camaro and Firefird sales have been down for at least three years, while mustangs sales are going up. The luxury markets (Cad, Buick Olds) have been weak for years. Why, GM’s not perceived as a ‘cutting edge’ high quality operation when compared to MB, BMW, AUDI, JAG, Lincoln, Lexus and Infinity. This is in spite of the too little, too late, me too Northstar and the wiz bang, night deer spotter. But GM has the american over 70 crowd, for sure 
Trucks are a strong point for GM but Ford always outsells these (poser/GOB trucks). BTW, Both R&T and C&D placed the Tundra on top of the full sized pickup heap. Hell GM can’t even do a decent SUV, instead just rehashed SUBs and S10 blazers. Can you say Excursion or Navigator? I almost split my sides when I saw a Sub with a caddy emblem -;) BTW, did you see in the news that GM was combining the car and truck divisions. More desperate moves for sagging car sales. It if weren’t for the fact that GM was so huge and diversified, they’d really be hurting now. Look at the facts Steve, GM’s car sales are weak compared to the rest of pack that are smelling the strong scent of blood from this weak and dying Brontosaurus. Get a clue Steve. You’re not on the winning team any longer as much as I known how desperately ‘your type’ seeks this sort of validation. It’s an essential part of the GOB mentality. Right as rain, ain’t I? [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
>Get a clue Steve. You’re not on the winning team any longer as much as >I known how desperately ‘your type’ seeks this sort of validation. >It’s an essential part of the GOB mentality. Right as rain, ain’t I?
I’m not on any team. Lol…."my type"? I was talking about profits, you’ve jumped to sales figures….clevery without *posting* any. What is your source, anyways?
Response:
>>What is your source, anyways? >Read the news/mags/trade rags or better yet don’t be such a "lazy" one >or two liner and find something contrary to what I’ve said.
You haven’t said anything yet.
Response:
Gee! Such venomous statements. Please tell us what crawled up your ass and died to illicit such comments of the overall condition of GM. Remember that GM is the outfit that outsmarted you and forced you to ride a bus instead of a trolley while your Nippon is busted.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >That _is_ the purpose of business, remember? Not research, not being >"cutting edge"….making money. > GM doesn’t sell cars all that well anymore. First let look at the > bread and butter sedans. > Camry, Maxima, Passat, Taurus, Intrepid…Hell Lumina’s not even in > the running. They’re so desperate to make a dent in this class that > they pulled the old Impala name out of moth balls. > Small sedans are in just as bad shape, with Saturn’s sales dipping > this last year. Can you say Corolla, Civic, Altima or Neon, with > Cavalier sucking the usual rear spot. > Camaro and Firefird sales have been down for at least three years, > while mustangs sales are going up. > The luxury markets (Cad, Buick Olds) have been weak for years. Why, > GM’s not perceived as a ‘cutting edge’ high quality operation when > compared to MB, BMW, AUDI, JAG, Lincoln, Lexus and Infinity. This is > in spite of the too little, too late, me too Northstar and the wiz > bang, night deer spotter. But GM has the american over 70 crowd, for > sure > Trucks are a strong point for GM but Ford always outsells these > (poser/GOB trucks). BTW, Both R&T and C&D placed the Tundra on top of > the full sized pickup heap. Hell GM can’t even do a decent SUV, > instead just rehashed SUBs and S10 blazers. Can you say Excursion or > Navigator? I almost split my sides when I saw a Sub with a caddy > emblem -;) > BTW, did you see in the news that GM was combining the car and truck > divisions. More desperate moves for sagging car sales. > It if weren’t for the fact that GM was so huge and diversified, they’d > really be hurting now. Look at the facts Steve, GM’s car sales are > weak compared to the rest of pack that are smelling the strong scent > of blood from this weak and dying Brontosaurus. > Get a clue Steve. You’re not on the winning team any longer as much as > I known how desperately ‘your type’ seeks this sort of validation. > It’s an essential part of the GOB mentality. Right as rain, ain’t I? > [...] > Bob Nixon > http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
>>Get a clue Steve. You’re not on the winning team any longer as much as >I known how desperately ‘your type’ seeks this sort of validation. >It’s an essential part of the GOB mentality. Right as rain, ain’t I? >I’m not on any team. Lol…."my type"?
You mean you Canadians SBC lovers don’t sit around and slap each other on the back about how great this or that head works with their SBC? >I was talking about profits, you’ve jumped to sales figures….clevery >without *posting* any.
Profits, smofits. Today’s hot quarterly statement is tomorrow bankruptcy. >What is your source, anyways?
Read the news/mags/trade rags or better yet don’t be such a "lazy" one or two liner and find something contrary to what I’ve said. Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
>OK Gribble, tough love time. If you don’t understand my disgust for GM >is stickily based on their lack of integrity on a corporate level,
LOL…."lack of intergrity on a corporate level." That’s rich…. Still annoyed they didn’t call you up for engine design advice? Their engines sell, and make money. That _is_ the purpose of business, remember? Not research, not being "cutting edge"….making money.
Response:
Corvette doesn’t use OHC. Last I checked it was still the good ole’ pushrods… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I don’t think GM is any worse than Ford or Chrysler. While some of GM’s > models may use pushrods instead of overhead cams, the rest of the vehicles > are very modern. While overhead cams may produce higher specific output, > they aren’t as reliable and low cost (both to build and maintain) as > pushrods. Using these engines lowers the cost of the vehicle, which appeals > to all. In their uplevel vehicles, GM is very up to date, what with > Cadillac, the uplevel Oldsmobiles, corvette, etc., all of which use overhead > cam engines I will agree that most Pontiacs are dressed up crap (I realize > that they are sister cars of other GM divisions, but Pontiac puts too much > flashing on what is a cheap car), but many of GM’s vehicles are very good > and very technologically advanced. > -Brett Youngstrom
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>What’s to counter. You had bad experiences and chose to act like a 12 >>year old about it. I’ve had mostly good experiences. What exactly do >>you expect your post to accomplish? Do you think it’s going to bring >>GM to it’s knees? Or do you just like to vent and bash? Your original >>post and it’s certainly full of bile and nonsense directed toward >>anyone who fails to share your low opinion of GM. >Oh.. Gribble.. Gribble. I haven’t owned a GM car since 1975, when they >were still made pretty well. Actually I’ve had 4: >1950 Caddy (first car, overhauled it in auto shop). >1953 Buick century, Cherry condition. Too good for a teen who wanted a >Hot Rod. Sold it for a 57 Ford with a later FE engine. >1958 Chevy 283. Rebuilt it while in the AF. Hauled my family around >the US for three years until I sold it and bought my ONLY new AMERICAN >car, a 1969 ‘383′ Charger. No real problems but generally a >disappointing rattle trap. >1965 Chevelle 283 wagon, second car. Bought it from a "Hippy"in Olema >Ca. Never had to put a dime in it for three years, until I sold it. >My last two american cars were: 1968 318 Dodge Van, &1969 302W >Mustang. The 318 burned valves two different times but the ford was >flawless. >My only actual bad car was a new 1971 Mazda RX-2 and (first production >(changed myself), I gave up and sold it to a Mazda dealer with Bars >leak to hide an o-ring leak. I later bought one new and one used RX-7. >Both were good cars and the last one had 160K / ten years when I sold >it. I currently own a late model Toyota and a clean 84 MB TD with 220K >miles (barely broke in -:). >So Mr. Fun, it’s not about my bad GM car experiences but what they’ve >done to give away the farm during the last 30 years. I suggest some >"objective" reading on GM history. I suspect though, that you’d be one >to say, "what I don’t know, can’t hurt me" -:) >[...] >Fascinating. You haven’t even owned GM cars in recent times and you >bash them. I’ve owned many and have first hand good experience with >almost all of them yet you are claiming "what I don’t know can’t hurt >me". Looks to me the person who doesn’t have the foggiest idea what >he’s talking about is you. Go back to your fantasy world.
I guess you still don’t understand. So let’s try it one "last" time -:) My beef with GM is that they surely could but have not provided their buying public with competitively designed cars. Instead they’ve taken the easy way out and focused on a marketing strategy to capture and hold the bottom or lowest common denominator of the new car market segment. IOW, the dumbest, poorest or least informed or most apt to follow the crowd. And yes, that’s still a huge market. No insult intended but in one way or the other, you MUST fit one of the above criteria. Get it now? If you don’t, then ask yourself why your NEW chevy, Pontiac or Buick V6 or V8, still has the basic engine that was first introduced in 1955, when literally the ENTIRE rest of the world has moved on to more contemporary technology. Actually GM tried to upgrade their 4’s and 6’s but ended up either reverting to old pushrod designs. Finally they stole a design from their European division (OPEL) as is evidenced by their new world class DOCH 4 banger sold in the new Saturns and other small GM cars. Actually this was a good move but it shows they had to go offshore because there own domestic designers could not do anything but more 1950 stuff. Ford is also guilty of this (Mazda) but AT LEAST they DID do a new domestic OHC V8. OK Gribble, tough love time. If you don’t understand my disgust for GM is stickily based on their lack of integrity on a corporate level, then I won’t respond again to your lack of understanding. As for me owning a newer GM car with the way I feel about their whole political mindset, I’d sooner slit my wrists -:) Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
>This won’t help with your lawsuit but next time, don’t buy GM trash. >I know this is a hard pill for many of you to swallow, who’s daddy’s >loved their stove bolts or OLDSmobiles but unless you learn to think >for yourselves, you’ll always be stuck with the "Downfall of America". >snipped the CRAP<
I don’t usually do this, but you hit some buttons with me. If your opinion of GM products is so low, why are you bothering to lurk in a GM newsgroup? Are you bottom feeding here? Trolling a little bit? Go AWAY!!!! Ron
Response:
>What’s to counter. You had bad experiences and chose to act like a 12 >year old about it. I’ve had mostly good experiences. What exactly do >you expect your post to accomplish? Do you think it’s going to bring >GM to it’s knees? Or do you just like to vent and bash? Your original >post and it’s certainly full of bile and nonsense directed toward >anyone who fails to share your low opinion of GM.
Oh.. Gribble.. Gribble. I haven’t owned a GM car since 1975, when they were still made pretty well. Actually I’ve had 4: 1950 Caddy (first car, overhauled it in auto shop). 1953 Buick century, Cherry condition. Too good for a teen who wanted a Hot Rod. Sold it for a 57 Ford with a later FE engine. 1958 Chevy 283. Rebuilt it while in the AF. Hauled my family around the US for three years until I sold it and bought my ONLY new AMERICAN car, a 1969 ‘383′ Charger. No real problems but generally a disappointing rattle trap. 1965 Chevelle 283 wagon, second car. Bought it from a "Hippy"in Olema Ca. Never had to put a dime in it for three years, until I sold it. My last two american cars were: 1968 318 Dodge Van, &1969 302W Mustang. The 318 burned valves two different times but the ford was flawless. My only actual bad car was a new 1971 Mazda RX-2 and (first production (changed myself), I gave up and sold it to a Mazda dealer with Bars leak to hide an o-ring leak. I later bought one new and one used RX-7. Both were good cars and the last one had 160K / ten years when I sold it. I currently own a late model Toyota and a clean 84 MB TD with 220K miles (barely broke in -:). So Mr. Fun, it’s not about my bad GM car experiences but what they’ve done to give away the farm during the last 30 years. I suggest some "objective" reading on GM history. I suspect though, that you’d be one to say, "what I don’t know, can’t hurt me" -:) [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
> Gee, I’ve had too many good GM cars to count but since this clown >doesn’t like GM I guess I’ll never buy another one.
Well at least you could counter with some sort of an argument. IOW, why was this or that car good and good compared to what? Do you have some point of reference other than a GM car? IOW, although my post was riddled with sarcasm and disdain, at least I provided some sort of reasoning for my intense prejudice. And I wasn’t even touching on all the major FU’s GM, Roger and the boys dealt since their peak around 1962. If they were smaller, they’d have never made it past the 80’s. But unfortunately, conservation of energy works both for and against all of us. 10 reasons for loving your GM car. 1) My sloping forehead fits my Corvette image. 2) My Firebird looks cooler than my neighbors Camaro. 3) When me and my buddies are out coon huntin’, we can always rely on my old Suburban to get us back home to Muleshoe tx. 4) Whenever I’m watching the Daytona 500, I always get a DEEP sense of pride, that I’m part of the winning team. 5) I’ve only had to use my jumper cables three times since I bought my new pontiac, two years ago. 6) I didn’t have to use a drip pan the first two years after I bought my Olds. 7) I take pride in knowing that my car is built in the good-ole-USA by good-ole-union labor. Well at least a couple of them still are. 
My new Caddy has one of those cool deer spotters. Now I don’t need a spotlight for poaching anymore. 9) With my vortec V6, I got the rear main leak fixed under warranty. 10) Fellow motorists always look over at my Grand Am like it’s a Diesel. It’s not, is it? And finally, one last poke in the ribs to all you GM fans: What did one GM owner say to the other when he asked what he’d been up to? "I’ve been busier than a set of jumper cables at an Oklahoma wedding", was his reply -:) [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
Oh, one more thing I failed to mention . When a call is placed to Chevrolet Customer Assistance they advise that all calls are recorded and monitored for quality assurance purposes. Any idea of how I can get a copy of the taped phone conversation between myself and the original GM Rep I spoke to who admitted that I would be reimbursed and who gave me all the specific information? Is asking the court to subpoena the tape-recorded conversation between myself and the GM Rep on March 30 sufficient to enter it as evidense in the case? Or can I just prepare a short transcript of the recorded cconversation to the best of my recollection and enter that as evidense? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Well here’s the situatuon I’m in now. I called the dealer and pointed >out the discrepany in the two repairs and they stil insisted that it >is not there responsibility to reimburse me for the repairs. I >threatened and eventually filed complaints with the Better Business >Bureau, Attroney General’s Office for Consumer Affairs, >local Chamber of Commerce, Dealer Licensing Division of the DMV. >. >Next I attempted to get reimbursed directly from Chevrolet. I wrote >Chevrolet Customer Service a letter explaining the situation >which was mailed last Saturday. I received a phone call from a GM >Customer Service Rep on Monday morning telling me my claim was >summarily dismissed and that the case would be closed. >Hmmm…I didn’t realize mail could travel across country in less than >a day??? All my later attempts at contacting GM failed. I haven’t >received a call back from the customer Service Rep who called me on >Monday or the original GM Cust Serv Rep I spoke to on March 30. Who, >incidentally told me that my vehicle would be covered under Special >Policy #99066A because and I quote "…It was built in Lynden, NJ and >the VIN# range falls between WK100218 and WK271013 and therefore it >will be covered if you send us a copy of your registration and a copy >of the paid repair order from the dealer". And here is where it gets >interesting, I asked if I could speak to the original Cust Serv Rep I >had spoken to on March 30 that had advised me of the reimbursement >procedure. I was told that she no longer works at this location and >that we don’t have the number where she can be reached. Can you >believe that shit? >Well needless to say I have the small claims court papers right here >in front of me ready to be filled out. Even if I don’t win, it will >still give me some satisfaction knowing that they had to spend their >money prepairing for the case and making a trip to the county court >house to explain this behavior to the judge. It really is a shame that >GM treats people like this. I have always driven GM cars and never >really had any major mechanical problems. My problem has to do with >management and their customer relations or the lack there of. >BTW,any advice as far as small claims court would be appreciated. Can >I sue for punitive damages in small claims court? > Well I have an interesting one for you. It all started last week when I had to have my >’98 Blazer towed from my driveway because it wouldn’t start. Several hours later I got a >call from the dealer telling me that all 6 poppet nozzles on the truck were stuck closed. >Ok..I thought. GM would surely pick up the tab on the repair and >towing and I would be back on the road in time for evening rush >hour. Errr…wrong. The service writer informed me that this would >not be covered under warranty and I would have to pay for it out of my own pocket. > I inquired further and they said that it is fuel related and hence not a warranty repair. I asked >what exactly does fuel related mean and they said maybe the gas was comtaminated with >water or something. Skeptical, I went on the Net for a little more >info about GM injectors. And sure enough there has been an issue >with ‘96 and up CSFI CHEVY/GMC 4.3L V6 and 5.0L/5.7L V8 poppet >nozzles getting stuck. So much so that GM is replacing the nozzles >free of charge on vehicles in California that come in to the dealer >with all the nozzles stuck closed.I believe there is a bulletin that warrantys > them for up to 10yrs/100k miles. Hmmmm….so GM is acknowledging the fact that perfectly >good fuel from a service station has and will on occasion cause the poppet nozzles to get stuck. So >much for their theory about my truck having bad fuel. Unfortunately I already paid for the repairs prior to > finding this out. I’m thinking GM either has cut or removed the diagnostic pay outside California for the poppet > nozzle diagnosis and removal and so the dealer stuck me with the bill. Or GM doesn’t want this info to get out that > there is a problem with faulty injectors and so instructs their dealerships to lay blame at the customer for > using contaminated gas. My question is: How do I get GM/dealer to reimburse me????? >Oh..one more minor detail. 2 days after I got the truck back. It >would hesitate on acceleration. I took it back to them and they said >it was setting a P0300 Random Misfire code. They dumped in some fuel >injector cleaner and cleared the code as per service bulletin. >Everything WAS covered under warranty this time. What gives??? Dirty injectors causing a >misfire IS covered under waranty but 6 dirty injectors plugged and the truck not starting is NOT covered???????
Response:
I don’t think GM is any worse than Ford or Chrysler. While some of GM’s models may use pushrods instead of overhead cams, the rest of the vehicles are very modern. While overhead cams may produce higher specific output, they aren’t as reliable and low cost (both to build and maintain) as pushrods. Using these engines lowers the cost of the vehicle, which appeals to all. In their uplevel vehicles, GM is very up to date, what with Cadillac, the uplevel Oldsmobiles, corvette, etc., all of which use overhead cam engines I will agree that most Pontiacs are dressed up crap (I realize that they are sister cars of other GM divisions, but Pontiac puts too much flashing on what is a cheap car), but many of GM’s vehicles are very good and very technologically advanced. -Brett Youngstrom
Response:
What in hell is this supposed to prove? If you don’t like GM why are you trolling here? In case you can’t read it, this is the GM news group. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >BTW,any advice as far as small claims court would be appreciated. Can >I sue for punitive damages in small claims court? > This won’t help with your lawsuit but next time, don’t buy GM trash. > I know this is a hard pill for many of you to swallow, who’s daddy’s > loved their stove bolts or OLDSmobiles but unless you learn to think > for yourselves, you’ll always be stuck with the "Downfall of America". > But don’t listen to ME or this guy’s troubles and just keep on humming > those corny TV jingles. You can take comfort in the fact that there > are lots of OTHER lemmings around you. Then maybe you really believe > those moronic stock car race cars, with their 60 year old drivers & > engine technology, actually resemble, in any way shape or form, that > Impala or Grand Prix you took so much pride in owning. > Meanwhile, GM will continue to make 1ST place on the Fortune 500 list, > all the while fleecing you Sheeple, with their outdated excuses for a > reliable, contemporary automobiles. > To put it another way. If the DOD were to buy Fighter Aircraft the > same way that the typical GM owner buys cars, our pilots would still > be flying P-51 Mustangs, instead of F-15 or 16s. That’s different, > "you say" but make no mistake about the fact that global economics in > this day in age, is no less important than the post war arms race. > [...] > Bob Nixon > http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
Can’t agree here, the BEST cars I’ve ever owned are GM’s (have 3 now). Used to buy Chryslers NEW, but used GM’s seem to be better than new Chryslers (at least in my experience). The BEST engine I’ve seen so far is the 3.8. I’ve had it in 2 cars now and it’s close to indestructable in both cases. The 3.1 in the Gran Prix is another story. Don’t think I’s do another GP, but the Bonneville has been fantastic. The last BIG LeMans I had w/ the 3.8 was also a great drivetrain, too bad the body was so rusty at the end. The best Fords I’ve seen are their trucks, the cars are marginal at best and there are NUMEROUS horror stories on this newsgroup about head gaskets and trans problems w/ Taurses (anything w/ the 3.8 in it actually). SO, for me, GM is the only alternative if I want to buy from a US car company. There are rare cases (Viper, Prowler, Mustang GT, Lincoln LS , etc) that I would consider since they seem to be built to a better standard than the typical Ford/Chrysler car. Don’t get me wrong, GM makes PLENTY of TURDS (Gran Prix/Regal/Cutlass, S10 ANYTHING, anything w/ a 4 cylinder engine) BUT, on they also have several cars w/ time tested technology in them that run very well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >BTW,any advice as far as small claims court would be appreciated. Can >I sue for punitive damages in small claims court? > This won’t help with your lawsuit but next time, don’t buy GM trash. > I know this is a hard pill for many of you to swallow, who’s daddy’s > loved their stove bolts or OLDSmobiles but unless you learn to think > for yourselves, you’ll always be stuck with the "Downfall of America". > But don’t listen to ME or this guy’s troubles and just keep on humming > those corny TV jingles. You can take comfort in the fact that there > are lots of OTHER lemmings around you. Then maybe you really believe > those moronic stock car race cars, with their 60 year old drivers & > engine technology, actually resemble, in any way shape or form, that > Impala or Grand Prix you took so much pride in owning. > Meanwhile, GM will continue to make 1ST place on the Fortune 500 list, > all the while fleecing you Sheeple, with their outdated excuses for a > reliable, contemporary automobiles. > To put it another way. If the DOD were to buy Fighter Aircraft the > same way that the typical GM owner buys cars, our pilots would still > be flying P-51 Mustangs, instead of F-15 or 16s. That’s different, > "you say" but make no mistake about the fact that global economics in > this day in age, is no less important than the post war arms race. > [...] > Bob Nixon > http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Before you buy.
Response:
[...] >BTW,any advice as far as small claims court would be appreciated. Can >I sue for punitive damages in small claims court?
This won’t help with your lawsuit but next time, don’t buy GM trash. I know this is a hard pill for many of you to swallow, who’s daddy’s loved their stove bolts or OLDSmobiles but unless you learn to think for yourselves, you’ll always be stuck with the "Downfall of America". But don’t listen to ME or this guy’s troubles and just keep on humming those corny TV jingles. You can take comfort in the fact that there are lots of OTHER lemmings around you. Then maybe you really believe those moronic stock car race cars, with their 60 year old drivers & engine technology, actually resemble, in any way shape or form, that Impala or Grand Prix you took so much pride in owning. Meanwhile, GM will continue to make 1ST place on the Fortune 500 list, all the while fleecing you Sheeple, with their outdated excuses for a reliable, contemporary automobiles. To put it another way. If the DOD were to buy Fighter Aircraft the same way that the typical GM owner buys cars, our pilots would still be flying P-51 Mustangs, instead of F-15 or 16s. That’s different, "you say" but make no mistake about the fact that global economics in this day in age, is no less important than the post war arms race. [...] Bob Nixon http://members.home.net/bigrex/
Response:
Well here’s the situatuon I’m in now. I called the dealer and pointed out the discrepany in the two repairs and they stil insisted that it is not there responsibility to reimburse me for the repairs. I threatened and eventually filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, Attroney General’s Office for Consumer Affairs, local Chamber of Commerce, Dealer Licensing Division of the DMV. . Next I attempted to get reimbursed directly from Chevrolet. I wrote Chevrolet Customer Service a letter explaining the situation which was mailed last Saturday. I received a phone call from a GM Customer Service Rep on Monday morning telling me my claim was summarily dismissed and that the case would be closed. Hmmm…I didn’t realize mail could travel across country in less than a day??? All my later attempts at contacting GM failed. I haven’t received a call back from the customer Service Rep who called me on Monday or the original GM Cust Serv Rep I spoke to on March 30. Who, incidentally told me that my vehicle would be covered under Special Policy #99066A because and I quote "…It was built in Lynden, NJ and the VIN# range falls between WK100218 and WK271013 and therefore it will be covered if you send us a copy of your registration and a copy of the paid repair order from the dealer". And here is where it gets interesting, I asked if I could speak to the original Cust Serv Rep I had spoken to on March 30 that had advised me of the reimbursement procedure. I was told that she no longer works at this location and that we don’t have the number where she can be reached. Can you believe that shit? Well needless to say I have the small claims court papers right here in front of me ready to be filled out. Even if I don’t win, it will still give me some satisfaction knowing that they had to spend their money prepairing for the case and making a trip to the county court house to explain this behavior to the judge. It really is a shame that GM treats people like this. I have always driven GM cars and never really had any major mechanical problems. My problem has to do with management and their customer relations or the lack there of. BTW,any advice as far as small claims court would be appreciated. Can I sue for punitive damages in small claims court? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well I have an interesting one for you. It all started last week when I had to have my >’98 Blazer towed from my driveway because it wouldn’t start. Several hours later I got a >call from the dealer telling me that all 6 poppet nozzles on the truck were stuck closed. >Ok..I thought. GM would surely pick up the tab on the repair and >towing and I would be back on the road in time for evening rush >hour. Errr…wrong. The service writer informed me that this would >not be covered under warranty and I would have to pay for it out of my own pocket. > I inquired further and they said that it is fuel related and hence not a warranty repair. I asked >what exactly does fuel related mean and they said maybe the gas was comtaminated with >water or something. Skeptical, I went on the Net for a little more >info about GM injectors. And sure enough there has been an issue >with ‘96 and up CSFI CHEVY/GMC 4.3L V6 and 5.0L/5.7L V8 poppet >nozzles getting stuck. So much so that GM is replacing the nozzles >free of charge on vehicles in California that come in to the dealer >with all the nozzles stuck closed.I believe there is a bulletin that warrantys > them for up to 10yrs/100k miles. Hmmmm….so GM is acknowledging the fact that perfectly >good fuel from a service station has and will on occasion cause the poppet nozzles to get stuck. So >much for their theory about my truck having bad fuel. Unfortunately I already paid for the repairs prior to > finding this out. I’m thinking GM either has cut or removed the diagnostic pay outside California for the poppet > nozzle diagnosis and removal and so the dealer stuck me with the bill. Or GM doesn’t want this info to get out that > there is a problem with faulty injectors and so instructs their dealerships to lay blame at the customer for > using contaminated gas. My question is: How do I get GM/dealer to reimburse me????? >Oh..one more minor detail. 2 days after I got the truck back. It >would hesitate on acceleration. I took it back to them and they said >it was setting a P0300 Random Misfire code. They dumped in some fuel >injector cleaner and cleared the code as per service bulletin. >Everything WAS covered under warranty this time. What gives??? Dirty injectors causing a >misfire IS covered under waranty but 6 dirty injectors plugged and the truck not starting is NOT covered???????
Response:
ave 91 Z71 